Donovan Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I have on order a set of Graph Tech Ghost piezo saddles, which should be arriving by the end of the week. I ordered only the saddles, the pre-wired mode switch, and the acoustiphonic preamp, NOT the hexaphonic MIDI preamp, though I may at a later date decide to install the hexaphinc as well... I have just not been exposed to MIDI enough for it to interest me and I find its (at least to me) perceived complexity to be intimidating. The host guitar is a 2008 Fender American Special Mahogany Strat HSS which has been modified with an SD-JB in the bridge, SD-HR in the middle, and SD-VR in the neck. The hope is this will sound really nice with the mahogany body and the .012-.056 strings I play. Anyone have any experience installing this system in my or similar configuration? From what I have looked at and understood so far, my magnetic pickup configuration or switching (this guitar has the S-1 switching system) should not be of concern as the signals from the 2 systems mix at a point in the chain after the pickup switching? Also, what about routing. I'll do this myself if there is a slick way to get around routing and I don't think I'd mind installing the battery under the pickguard sans a battery access panel since the battery life is claimed to be about 500 hours and I play <10 hours per week. If it can't be done, I will be paying a shop tech to do it as I am not known for my woodworking talents! What about running the wires from the saddles to the cavity? I have read about drilling holes in the bridge plate, but on the GT website, it shows wires actually visible (eeeewww) running over the tremolo fulcrum, totally not stealth. I had not considered this until I saw this post-order, but to me, this needs to be stealth as I want this guitar to maintain a very clean look. I am interested in hearing any and all experience/comments anyone is willing to share on this piezo system, including opinions regarding tonal quality. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six_stringer Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I don't have any experience with this but I did see a good pic story on installing the Graph Tech stuff on a seven string Ibanez RG7321 without a pickguard. He drilled into his fixed bridge to route the piezo wires and it looks really clean to me. Here is the link, http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/the-seven...zo-install.html Good Luck, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Sounds like a good plan...i haven't got any pics handy...but my "nightmare strat" project involved some DIY piezo ideas...as does my new project...but not saddles. There may be a thread around on the ghost system though...but I don't recall pics. Because of the sustainer, the lack of any pic guard on my contemporary strat and a tight rear cavity already over filled with stuff...I routed a stealth battery compartment into the rear of the tremolo cavity...behind the trem block. Not for the faint hearted...but very stealth while still being accessable. Under the pickguard is probably ok with most active electronics. Some have found ways to move the springs about and fit the battery along side (depending of the springs and trem use). I had to find a solution for the sustainer as this will wear down batteries if used a lot. I have heard the ghost system is really good. I had some normal graphtec saddles and quite liked them. The midi thing is tempting...but it is only as good as the sound module it triggers...then you are looking at a whole new instrument, a synth! Still...maybe later...it is one of the beauties of the system. All the reviews have been very good...but search about, I know some have used them here... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I have installed this system on my 8-string multiscale guitar (using my own design for a fixed wood bridge to hold the saddles). Being that the Graphtech saddles are not metal, be prepared to lose a little bit of high-end attack compared with the metal saddles. But I think you'll like the piezo sound (with some EQing). As far as the wiring goes, you are right on - you will basically take the output from your mag system (the one going to the output jack) and solder it to the Ghost preamp. But you will also need to make space on the pickguard for the piezo volume, which I would do by getting rid of the 2nd tone control. As for your specific bridge - you'll notice that the wire comes out from under each saddle, and at that point you can either run it forward (and under the pickguard like they show on the website) or run it backward toward the bridge (wires through the trem cavity rout). The problem with running them backward is that you already have the string-thru holes in the bridge for your strings, and you do not want the strings to bear down on the piezo wires - and there's really not any more room to drill another set of holes directly underneath your saddles, because the hole needs to be large enough to pass not only the wire, but also the connector at the end of the wire (which is about twice as wide as the wire itself). The Ibanez guy drilled his holes in front of the saddles, but I would be very concerned about weakening the registration points on a strat trem bridgeplate if you tried that - with a hardtail bridge, he didn't have to worry about that. I do think you're better off running them forward under the pickguard - you'll think it looks like hell with the strings off, but with the strings on it's not that noticable, and that's where your hand will be when you're playing anyway. It is also easier to send the wires into the strat's control cavity from that direction. You can also make a little more room in there if you replace the first tone pot with a mini pot (you don't want to replace the S1 volume pot). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 The guy that did it on his 7-string Ibanez did a pretty good job. A floating trem would be a lot harder to do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan Posted February 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Thanks for the comments, all. Update... I removed all the electronics from the guitar last night and attempted shuffling everything around in hopes of shoe-horning it all in without having to mill out any portion of the guitar's body. After about 15 different configurations, this was just not going to happen, so I gave up and suffered pre-gear-install jitters for the rest of the night... So, I brought the disassembled guitar into work this morning and a coworker in our plant's machine shop milled out a nice pocket to contain the battery and PCB assembly adjacent to the controls cavity. Pete, like you said, a whole new instrument if MIDI is installed. Some of the youtube demos show this and WOW! Not that I don't like the idea of MIDI capability, but again, I find it overly complex (not to mention expensive) for me to implement any time soon. The DIY sustainer and this project are plenty! Anyway, I had the pocket milled deep enough for the "just in case" scenario of someday deciding to install the hexaphonic MIDI PCB with the 13-pin connector. So, I should mention for later readers, the acoustiphonic preamp is NOT hexaphonic. It mixes the signals in parallel from each saddle right into one input connector. I thought this strange, as from what I have read, this is not how one would typically "mix" or "sum" AC signals in a preamp circuit. I am NOT installing a battery cover, so I hope the claimed 500 hour battery life is at least close to a reality. After checking out that Ibanez install thread six_stringer posted I was excited, but decided to err on the side of caution and kept it simple as erikbojerik's and Paul's comments made sense and 1) I felt a bit of anxiety about weakening my tremolo plate and 2) I felt movement of the tremolo would have the potential to over time chafe and degrade the teflon insulation over these tiny wires if the holes were not perfectly deburred. The instruction manual mentions creating channels for the wires to run across the back of the pickguard near the bridge. I opted not to do this step either as I had no way to accurately create these tiny channels. Regardless, the pickguard does not appear at all bowed or stressed and there is sufficient slack in the wires for bidirectional tremolo movement. Also, once I strung it all up with a new set of .012" Boomers, I adjusted the wire layout to coincide with the strings, so it is not an eyesore unless you are looking really close. I can not see them from 3 or 4 feet away. I utilized the stock 2nd tone control as the piezo volume. This was fairly straight forward in the instruction manual, but I think I should mention the instruction manual is poorly laid out, IMHO. It really is all over the place and I found at least one instance where a wiring diagram was not what it claimed to be, causing me to have to flip back and forth through pages to decipher the color codes (lots of colors, lots of wires in the kit) for the stereo jack setup. I also installed the "quick switch", which basically allows you to switch from mag to piezo or mix mode. This works nicely, but now that I see what it is (about $10.00 worth of parts, it was overpriced and I would have liked a more aesthetically pleasing switch for the money, but oh well. The contact point on the saddles is drastically forward in comparison with the Fender saddles, so after setting the action, I had to run through the intonation procedure for 3 iterations to get it all back to normal, and I found that I still didn't have enough squeeze room between the back of the saddle and the bridge plate for the low E to get it just right. On the next string change, I'll be clipping the spring down to half size to see if that is enough as I am very **** about intonation. Unfortunately, my amp setup is at work (band practices there on Saturdays), so I only had my pedalboard and some Philips amplified desktop speakers to try it out on. My thoughts at this point are that the sound quality is striking and very acoustic-like, and this is going to make my playing much more versatile as well as offering a nice mix tone, but the tone is not AS acoustic-like as I had hoped. The sound is very crisp and surprisingly (at least to me knowing not much at all about piezo systems) sounds very nice with overdrive/distortion as well. I would have expected it to sound crappy like an acoustic does with overdrive/distortion, but this is not the case. Will post a couple of pics and some more comments tomorrow after I get to try it out loud on the Fender amp. Until then, thanks for the helpful comments. I believe they helped me make the right decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Nice job! I think a little EQing work will help - maybe also try the Ghost bright/dark switch - save the preset on your pedal board, and it'll be close enough for live. The thing I do like about the pre-made quickswitch (and the bright/dark) is that the wires have the connectors pre-installed, so all you have to do is plug them into the PCB - no having to try to solder a tiny wire onto a tiny metal post, worth the $10 IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 After playing with it quite a bit during practice on Saturday, I am very happy with the system and feel like I am getting the best of both worlds acoustic and electric. Band members were impressed with the tone quality as well. The ghost pickups do sound convincingly like an acoustic guitar, adding just enough to the attack to make the tone very natural and real, even through my Fender hot rod DeVille 2X12. The mix mode is superb and allows infinite variability. Clean, I could not decide on what I liked best as all the mix levels sounded very nice. I can now tap on the guitar body or the bridge and get some cool percussive effects. I was also presently surprised that the system even sounds good with overdrive and high-gain distortion, which I have found horrible with acoustic-electric guitars. At this point, I am not left wanting for anything more as far as the ghost system goes. If anything, I need only slight tweaking of the action and intonation as 1) the saddles are set lower and I am thinking I need to lower my trem screws in order to be able to rais the saddles a bit more and 2) I will be removing and clipping about 1/2 of the spring on the low E saddle, since there is a distinct difference in the contact point of the string to the saddle, much closer to the nut than a stock Fender American saddle and I need to move this saddle back toward the bridge end for better intonation. I find the overall quality to be excellent and the aesthetics, to me, are pleasing with the matte black finish, though I had a really hard time capturing the real look of the system in poor unnatural light. Still, the only thing that is even somewhat a negative is that I did not go uber stealth with the signal wires. As already discussed, this may be easily overcome with some drilling, but that may diminish the strength of the trem plate, and so I'll not be doing this unless I upgrade the plate at some point in the future. See photo below, where depending on angle and proximity, the wires are visible, though minimally so. The 2nd volume control is now the ghost volume and the toggle switch between the volume and tone controls is the 3-way mode switch (mag-mix-ghost). How this works: in mag mode, you get magnetic controls only, and the ghost volume does nothing (ghost signal output is off), in mix mode, both the mag volume and ghost volume controls are active, mixing the signal in any configuration you like, any mag pickup combination + ghost, and in ghost mode, the mag volume has no function as the mag signal output is switched off and the piezos alone comprise the signal, which again is controlled by the ghost (previously tone) volume control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Looks great! The only thing I would be concerned about is if the edge of the trem baseplate is pinching the wires where they go under the pickguard - you don't want to wear through the insulation and short out your piezo signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 That turned out very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Nice work. t would be great to hear a sound clip to compare the acoustic and electric sounds! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Nice work. t would be great to hear a sound clip to compare the acoustic and electric sounds! John Thanks, John. I am working on the sound clips. I am having a problem... can't seem to sort it through any web searches. When I pump sound in to my soundcard via my pedal's USB interface or straight into the Aux jack on the soundcard, I am getting a pronounced chorus effect. I have no idea why and this is not a nice chorus, it is like a strong vhorus with depth and rate mid to high = eeeew. This occurs with both my 3rd party recording software and Windows sound recorder, so I am fairly certain it is a hardware issue. Drivers are new, though. Anyway, when I get it sorted, I will be adding clips here for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 You might want to try something like audacity...you can run through an effects into the line in usually to get a half decent sound without a dedicated audio interface. Audacity is free and works ok for me. Soundclick is a bit of a PITA but works for free with MP3 tracks below 10MB. You may need to download a converter (see the site) to save to MP3 tracks but this is also free. Love to hear it! Then we can hear the sustainer and see if that can't be improved...hahaha good luck pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan Posted March 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 (edited) You might want to try something like audacity...you can run through an effects into the line in usually to get a half decent sound without a dedicated audio interface. Audacity is free and works ok for me. Soundclick is a bit of a PITA but works for free with MP3 tracks below 10MB. You may need to download a converter (see the site) to save to MP3 tracks but this is also free. Love to hear it! Then we can hear the sustainer and see if that can't be improved...hahaha good luck pete Yes! Audacity works without the annoying chorus thing... and I registered for soundclick as well. The clips can be accessed from my signature, but the link is www.soundclick.com/donovansclips All clips are run through my Digitech RP250 and straight into my soundcard and recorded with Audacity. The clean clips have a very low amount of added reverb and delay. The distorted tones have a bit more. Clean Mag-Ghost This is my improv of a tune you may recognize if you're a Zep fan. The first iteration is the bridge Duncan JB. Second is the Ghost system. Both iterations are finger-picked. Clean Mag-Ghost-Mix This is just some noodling with open chords. The first iteration is the bridge Duncan JB. Second is the Ghost system. Third is the mix mode, which may sound closer to the ghost side than the electric side, but both volumes were maxed... the ghost overtakes as I have yet to adjust the gain pot on the PCB. This will happen next time I remove the pickguard for a battery change... not critical for the moment as I can adjust mix down with the volume knobs as necessary. Distorted Mag-Ghost-Mix This is higher gain distortion through the Digitech RP250. The first iteration is the bridge Duncan JB. Second is the Ghost system, and third is again the mix mode. Note how you can make out the abrasion of the strings against the frets very clearly in the Ghost and mix modes during the vibratos as the sustain dies. However, there is not the stereotypical "sounds like $hit", at least IMHO, as compared to a real acoustic with distortion, which seems to turn to complete mud. I would not think that forgetting to exit the Ghost mode in a gigging scenario would be the worst thing that could happen! Please excuse the quality as these are my first clips. I do hope you enjoy them. Edited March 1, 2009 by Donovan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I do hope you enjoy them. Certainly did! nice clips and well recorded. You are getting a nice full acoustic tine from the ghost system. cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I do hope you enjoy them. Certainly did! nice clips and well recorded. You are getting a nice full acoustic tine from the ghost system. cheers John Thanks, John. I am getting better acquainted with the system the last few days. I recorded a short 2 min demo song yesterday, in case this might help anyone teetering on whether or not to try the Ghost system. The new clip is entitled "2009-03-08 DJS" and is available from the link in my sig. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Nice clips Mr D. I liked the new one...but I'm a sucker for a clean tone. There's still a fair bit of piezo quack, but considering the recording set up that's not surprising. Still a great sound and illustrates the potential for piezos on solid bodies...the quack is no worse than a typical piezo equiped acoustic, better than many. I personally like the potential of the mixed sounds that are not available to "real" acoustics...the mags help round out the tone and give an interesting hybrid sound...and even with distortion, it gives a nice defining attack to the notes... Well done, it will surely help others who are contemplating the ghost system, or piezos in general on solid body guitars... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Im working on a hybrid now using the Ghost system. They want an extra $70 for the piezo volume w/ mid-dark switch and the mini-switch to switch between piezo and mag. Seems a little much. Does anybody know what type switches they're using and how they are wired? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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