Install Frets To Fretboard

[Rocket]

I would rather install the frets onto the fretboard before it's on the neck because it seems like it would be so much easier, having a flat surface to rest on while pressing the frets in. Is there any problem doing it this way?

I've only done it with a fully assembled neck.

[Woodenspoke]

I would rather install the frets onto the fretboard before it's on the neck because it seems like it would be so much easier, having a flat surface to rest on while pressing the frets in. Is there any problem doing it this way?

I've only done it with a fully assembled neck.

The reason you wait is because once you apply glue and attach the fingerboard the fret board may no longer be perfectly level. A final leveling should occur after gluing and before fretting. My question is do you want to sand wood or file down frets to level a board. I have heard people say they pre fret a board, I personally don't see how this is a better procedure. Sure you can sand the edges easily so what. Your result may be a wavy board and uneven fret heights.

I have also seen pictures of some people fretting a blond fender style neck (integrated fingerboard) prior to shaping the neck, also not a good Idea. It is possible you have introduced some back bow into the neck when you installed the frets and you will not see this until the neck has been shaped close to final dimensions. The more you shape the neck the further back it could bend. I am not saying this will happen but it could if you did not match up the fret slots and fret wire properly.

[Mitch]

I installed frets before the fingerboard was on the neck but i wouldn't level them before the board is on the neck as the frets force the slots apart slightly and bow the board little.

[Rocket]

I was only talking about getting the frets in the slots, period. No leveling or anything else. I think I understand you Woodenspoke - you're saying if the fretboard, wthout frets, isn't level after installing then not having fretted

yet I could sand the board down. Makes sense.

Edited March 13, 2009 by Rocket

[Maiden69]

There is no right answer. Some people do it before, and others after. It is a matter of preference.

[erikbojerik]

My preference is to fret with the fretboard off the neck, for that very reason - easier to fret onto a flat surface (I press).

I glue mine in with Titebond, and flex the board (before the glue is dry) so that it has NO backbow after fretting.

For the neck, I plane the fretboard surface flat, thin the back to final thickness, then rough out the back contour and just *barely* shave the fretboard surface again so that it is perfectly flat.

See where I'm going - fretboard and neck are both now flat and stress-free.

Then I attach the board to the neck with epoxy - no moisture to soak into the wood fibers and induce flexure in the neck (I've seen it several times with Titebond) - you have to rest the fretted neck in a specially made caul when you clamp, but they are easy to make.

End result - straight, stress-free neck that needs almost no fret levelling. The only levelling I have to do is upper fret fallaway - and I am now thinking about actually milling that fallaway into the board before fretting.

[Woodenspoke]

My preference is to fret with the fretboard off the neck, for that very reason - easier to fret onto a flat surface (I press).

I glue mine in with Titebond, and flex the board (before the glue is dry) so that it has NO backbow after fretting.

For the neck, I plane the fretboard surface flat, thin the back to final thickness, then rough out the back contour and just *barely* shave the fretboard surface again so that it is perfectly flat.

See where I'm going - fretboard and neck are both now flat and stress-free.

Then I attach the board to the neck with epoxy - no moisture to soak into the wood fibers and induce flexure in the neck (I've seen it several times with Titebond) - you have to rest the fretted neck in a specially made caul when you clamp, but they are easy to make.

End result - straight, stress-free neck that needs almost no fret leveling. The only leveling I have to do is upper fret fallaway - and I am now thinking about actually milling that fallaway into the board before fretting.

Ok I stand corrected.

The only problem I can see with your technique is you know an awful lot about wood, wood stresses wood movement and fretting techniques. Whereas most people on this forum have only a limited amount of woodworking and guitar building experience. Which is the level on which I like to base my answers, even though it is hard to gather years of experience into a single post as you have just done. I like to believe when I glue down a fretboard without the frets and fret later in the process I wind up with a stress free assembly as well.

I just wonder how many people got lost on mentioning a fallaway?

I for one am interested in the details about your technique using titebond in the slot and flexing the board to keep it straight prior to gluing. Everything else seemed pretty straight forward (to me). Unless its a trade secret lets hear more, maybe you have posted details in another thread.....

[erikbojerik]

You're not "corrected" Spoke - as Maiden said, there's no "right" way, that's just my way and my rationale for doing it that way. I learned it from reading and making necks different ways, it works for the order in which I do things - no more than that. Anyone can try it.

For gluing frets in, after slotting I bevel the edges of the slots slightly with a triangular file, then put glue in ~4-5 slots, wipe off the excess with a damp paper towel, press those frets in, then wipe off the excess again - repeat. After the neck is fretted, I'll just bend it gently against the backbow so the tangs bite in - a little at a time - until its worked out.

Often I'll also be using a bound fretboard, which doesn't bow back nearly as much as an unbound one.

[Woodenspoke]

You're not "corrected" Spoke - as Maiden said, there's no "right" way, that's just my way and my rationale for doing it that way. I learned it from reading and making necks different ways, it works for the order in which I do things - no more than that. Anyone can try it.

For gluing frets in, after slotting I bevel the edges of the slots slightly with a triangular file, then put glue in ~4-5 slots, wipe off the excess with a damp paper towel, press those frets in, then wipe off the excess again - repeat. After the neck is fretted, I'll just bend it gently against the backbow so the tangs bite in - a little at a time - until its worked out.

Often I'll also be using a bound fretboard, which doesn't bow back nearly as much as an unbound one.

Thanks for the procedural clarification.

I know there are 50 ways to do the same operation as evident by massive posts and disagreements on this forum. I guess whatever makes you happy do it as long as the end result is the same.

[Southpa]

One of the last things I do is carve the back of the neck. That way I have a stable surface for doing most everything else prior to that event. If you know the dimensions you are working with you should have no problems. If your fret slots are the proper size then you shoud not have any backbow, thats means the neck is undergoing longitudinal internal stress, something is too tight. Consequently, I don't use glue either. As mentioned, everyone has their own way of doing things. The secret is being able to duplicate your efforts for each fret. I've managed to get it so all that extra effort like glueing as well as fret levelling and crowning is not necessary. Of course there is no right way, but there definitely ARE easier ways. Just practice getting it right the first time and being consistent in your madness.

Edited March 15, 2009 by Southpa

[Rocket]

Hey thanks for the tips, all. I'm a novice for sure. This will be my second attempt at attaching a fretboard. The first one didn't end well. But I'm doing my research this time and getting what I think are the right tools for the job.

The fretboard is one I took off a different neck. It came off totally intact but I noticed it bowed convexly. The frets were shot so when I took those out, the board was then straight.So that was something in my mind when I was thinking about fretting the board alone, off the neck. That with frets and bowed it would make it slightly more difficult when that glue is wet and I'm trying to position everything in a hurry.

Epoxy is something I hadn't considered as a glue to attach the fretboard. Would give me more working time before it starts to set. Do many people use epoxy?

[guitar_player]

I do it before usually so I can press them in and it's a lot easier. Usually I use doublestick tape to attach it to the neck and sand sand it perfectly flat with a radius sanding block then take it off and install frets.

[Woodenspoke]

Hey thanks for the tips, all. I'm a novice for sure. This will be my second attempt at attaching a fretboard. The first one didn't end well. But I'm doing my research this time and getting what I think are the right tools for the job.

The fretboard is one I took off a different neck. It came off totally intact but I noticed it bowed convexly. The frets were shot so when I took those out, the board was then straight.So that was something in my mind when I was thinking about fretting the board alone, off the neck. That with frets and bowed it would make it slightly more difficult when that glue is wet and I'm trying to position everything in a hurry.

Epoxy is something I hadn't considered as a glue to attach the fretboard. Would give me more working time before it starts to set. Do many people use epoxy?

Just think of each fret as a mini wedge, as you push in each fret the fingerboard moves in a backbow just a tiny bit. But you have as many as 24 wedges to put in. Putting a bit of backwards pressure into a fingerboard is typical for most production guitars and is not usually a problem. The backbow you saw is typical rather than unusual. You cant expect to get zero wedge effect unless you have a large fret slot and the frets are glued in. In some cases people use this wedge effect to repair a neck. If you stick to using a known brand of fret wire and a fret slot size recommended for that wire you should be fine. However refretting a neck may be a bit more difficult than the discussions here about new work.

I would suggest that you look into buying the first Dan Erlewines video on fretting (at Stumac) as there is a host of information on refretting a neck. I would personaly reglue the fingerboard back onto the neck flatten the board then refret. make sure the truss rod is not under tension as you level the board.

Again this is something that a good video will help you master. It will be worth every penny if the job you do is done correctly.

Good luck