fryovanni

I use Shellac often (French polish). It is not a fast way to finish a guitar, but it is a wonderful finish in my opinion. It is not as durable os some of the more modern finishes, but as mentioned it is servicable and has a very long history of success. If applied properly it offeres great protection, and is a nice thin finish. Speed in finishing vs quality. With the proper equipment, finish(type), and application schedule a finish can be applied pretty quickly. There are people who offer these services and have their system dialed in to be able to achieve good results. You can't achieve that kind of speed without having your system dialed though. If you want that speed outsource it. If you finish the guitar yourself. The first thing you NEED to do is focus on flawless prep and fill. A major mistake many people make is thinking that they will fix or fill a finish during clear coat stages. That will take MUCH longer, and often will lead to complications and a poor final product. When I prep for shellac. I usually will use Z-poxy (this is an epoxy finish, not glue) to grain fill and give me my base surface to apply shellac. When I surface the fill I am looking for 100% even surface(all pores are filled and a very thin level coat of Zpoxy covers the instrument. This type of epoxy fill is slow setting 12-24 hour (not as some glues that set in very short periods), which is required for a thin self leveling coat (by thin I mean less than a teaspoon of Zpoxy will fill an entire acoustic body). I will usually level and remove scratches up to 400-600 grit (carefully going through each grit to clear scratches). Then I start the french polishing process. A light wash coat, then a weeks worth of building sessions(building sessions add micro thin layers of shellac applied with very high pressure). If leveling is required, I use 600 grit, then apply more body sessions if needed(all depends on how poorly I apply the body coats). When it is looking good I move to glazing(very thin smoothing layer with a light cut of shellac). At that point I move to final level and polish/ buffing. At that point 1200 grit is agressive, and I try to start at 2000+ and work up to 12000. I wouldn't count on less than two weeks to apply this type of finish, if your grain fill and prep is poor you will spend much longer (shellac itself makes a poor filler, if you are going to use it as a fill instead of using Zpoxy, you will need to use a process called pumicing which involves little shellac and a lot of polishing/sanding to develop an even fill). Look over Milburns tutorial on French Polishing- Tutorial . This is a great explanation of the process. There are many features that are nice about FP (Low cost to set up, forgiving, repairable, you can use all food grade materials *using Everclear, Shellac, and Olive oil), but it is not a "fast" finish. Peace,Rich

Probably the most complicated part of distinguishing them is that there are not just two types. The hardest and heaviest is sugar maple, next would be Red Maple, Then Black and Silver, Finally the lightest and softest would be Big Leaf or Western Maple. The weight and texture of sugar vs Big leaf(western) Maple is a dead give away( big leaf weights much leass and is not nearly as hard). Red is fairly heavy and hard it is notably so compaired to big leaf. Silver Maple is a wild card, and probably my least favorite of all the maples(often mineral stained, heavy, but not very stiff relative to its weight).

I sometimes use templates to check the shape of the back as I am shaping (but only if I am making a copy of a profile). The most important tool to have on hand at all times and use often is a set of calipers to monitor your thickness accurately. As long as you watch your thickness(by all means do not allow your self to get rushed and get too close or cut right through to the truss rod slot) you can adjust the shape of the back to suit your prference. It is usually easiest to shape your heel area somewhat close(say 1/8" fat) and the nut area(again leave it a little thick), then connect the two points. Shaping the nut and heel take most of the time when shaping the back, the points between on the shaft go much faster. Really slow down as you get close to final thickness, be sure not to get too agressive. Also be sure you know exactly what thickness you are shooting for, and make sure it allows at least 1/8" of material behind the truss rod slot. Scrapers are great tools when you get close say +.080- .060", and go to smooth sanding(buffing) when you are at about +.020". Rich P.S. All of this work is best done before you attach the wings. A neck through guitar neck can be pretty close to 90% when you attach wings. All of your tasks will be more straight forward and you will not risk dinging up your body(or accidentally damaging the area where the wings meet the neck).

I am sure the blanks are well dried and just dandy. That is certainly not your only option for Maple neck blanks. There are many online wood dealers, some better than others. Your absolute best option is going to be to find a local hardwood dealer and pick up some by selecting it yourself(pick out clear straight grain wood, either well quartered or flat sawn is good) and avoiding shipping costs. Hard Maple retails for about $6-ish dollars a board foot. A neck blank like the one Stew Mac offers are about .75 bd. ft. worth of Maple. Find a local hardwood dealer if you can. Spend $20 and get enough wood for 4 necks, then store away three of those for future projects. You should buy well dried Maple(kiln dried wood is usually very close to what you need, especially if it has been in the store for several months), and give it a month to aclimate to your shop before use(you should do that with any wood you buy, local or shipped). Grab your phone book and look up hardwood dealers. If you can't find a hardwood dealer, look for cabnet shops in your area(shoot they may even have scrap that would make fine necks. Peace,Rich

What you are dealing with is the grain running up and down, exposing side grain in some areas and end grain(runnout) in others. This is what makes it look as it does. You know that side grain and end grain sand differently, and that is what is giving you the grief. When you get ready to finish and raise the grain then sand, you will notice it facets a bit again all due to the way the grain runs. Most people have no trouble seeing how visable grain lines(growth rings) orient, but grain also runs in a less visable direction somewhat perpendicular to the viable growth rings. When split this orientation becomes appearant as the split will follow it. If you looked at a very well quartersawn(pretty much flawless) bookmatched set, and both sides reflect light pretty much equally, you probably have very little deviation or slope in the face grain. If one side appears much darker than the other then you will most likely have a stronger slope to the face grain. This light and dark effect is also what gives figured wood its look. Curly or Quilted figured woods are basically an example of extream face grain runnout. Hope that helps make more sense of what you are seeing or experiencing. Your Quilted Maple is not defective at all, just the way it is suposed to be Rich

Oh well, next thing i have to do is route for the truss rod, then I have to inlay the fretboard, and glue it to the body, at which point i can taper and shape, then It's on to fretting. that's the plan anyway. When I do a neck through I usually route for the truss and then carbon fiber rods(when using them) while the blank is still square. I taper the neck, ruff shape the back, shape and drill the headstock, and basically get everything with the exception of final shaping of the transition to the body on the back of the neck done before attaching the body wings. It makes it much easier to work with the neck if you don't have the wings attached. FWIW, tapering close to the body is particularly painful if you attach the wings before tapering is done. Peace,Rich

I guess that would make me +4 for Allieds truss rods. Have had very good luck with them, and they are nice to install.

I can see advantages in buying or making templates. I have always made my own templates, but I would not hesitate to buy templates if I wanted exactly what was offered. I have bought cut radius templates to assist me in making accurate jigs, and it was a great time saver and worked out perfectly. If you did buy templates, it is important that you not lose touch with your plans(I can't see building without plans period). If you buy templates you will also want to use them as masters to create duplicates, so there is also a bit of work associated with templates. I guess it comes down to what you want, and your budget. Rich

It worked fine, but it was like I said ruff cut and then cleaned up. The trick to using a jig saw is to not allow the blade to wander sideways on you. Not as big a problem with straight cuts, but you have to be careful turning around a radius. Nope, this is what I was asking. Peace,Rich

I am really just trying to make sure that you understand what 1/16" worth of material on the sides at the nut will look like. Think about what happens when you carve (rasp) the shape of the back of the neck. You will not see 1/16" worth of material all the way through the neck, the maple will stop after just a bit of your shape is carved. This is ok, but it does look different, the lams will seem to be very slight bits. Try shaping a little piece of wood as you would the back of the neck at the nut, allowing for 1/16" worth of material that is tapering. No harm though, just wanted to make sure you understood(sometimes it is hard to picture what a carved surface will do to the look of lams). If you are clear as to what that look will be, then I am happy, my only thought was I wanted to be sure you understood That sounds fine. You will need to take a lot of passes with the router to get it close to your final taper(and be really careful not to try to take much at all when you get close to that final 1/16" worth of maple, it is really easy to get tear out). I usually ruff cut the shape of my necks within about 1/8" of the final shape (I use a bandsaw, but on my first I actually used a hand held jig saw), then I true up the final shape with my router using a template. Then I shape the back of the neck. For shaping, I use spokeshave, small plane, rasp, scraper, and a bit of sand paper. As I described above. Yes, as I described above. You can, but it requires a lot of small passes, and is going to put a lot of wear and tear on your router bit. Doable, just painful method. No, I said it would be a bad idea to ruff out the whole neck with only a rasp. That is what I wanted to make sure you were not going to try. As I described above. I have ruff shaped the profile of the back of a neck with a roundover pattern bit. It isn't the method I prefer though, as a spokeshave does the job about as fast if not faster than setting up and using a router. I am just a weekend hobbiest, but if I can pass on a heads up from a mistake I made along the way Peace,Rich

I think he is saying, it won't help to look for a direction to optimise your sanding, because it has totally random grain (no direction to reference). You will have bits of runnout all over the place, so be careful with it (very delicate stuff). I love the look of lace burl, great stuff!

I'm planning on using a rasp to do the whole thing. Someone tell me if this is a bad idea. I can't use the table saw because the outer lams at the headstock will be parallel to the inner ones First, I want to make sure I understand. When you say your planning to use rasps for the whole thing, does that mean you will ruff shape the whole neck and then shape the back of the neck with rasps? That is probably a poor choice if that is the case. You would do much better to ruff cut the taper and basic shape of the neck with a saw, then true it up with a template and router or some method referencing a template. I may just be mis-understanding what you are saying though. With regards to your outer maple lams. 1/16th of outer lam at the nut is going to createa sliver like look. You may have a full 16th of an inch where the fretboard meets the neck blank, but as soon as you shape the neck much at all you will lose the maple lam(also be extreamly careful to not carve away that bit of maple, as any deviation is going to be very appearant when referencing such a small bit of wood). I just want to make sure you understand that now, and are not taken off gaurd when you get to that point, If that was not your intent, now would be the time to change up the lam configuration if you had invisioned something a little different. Rich

That blanket should do fine. The 2.5W density will be more forgiving than higher wattage blankets (less likely to burn, although they heat up a tad slower *but that is not long). Now if you go back through some of the side bending topics in the acoustic section you will find info on bending forms, how to use metal slats to make up a "sandwich" that will give you the best results. A couple key items, Use craft paper to control staining between slats and the wood. I like to seal the slats with a bit of masking tape, this will keep moisture and steam in the slat better for more even heating. Be sure the form is evenly supported. Use flexable slats, especially for tight bends(stiff metal slats can actually break the wood as it is pulled from the form and returns to flat). Use a thermometer to gauge temp. Do not try to bend until the wood has become flexable, you should be able to feel a significant change in flexability(almost feels like plastic), thin slats will help you gauge this. Use a controller to limit the temp of the blankets, even 2.5W density will eventually overheat the wood(although it is much more forgiving). If you are bending a wide radius, you can leave wood .090" with no trouble (I can do this on a non cutoway with no issues), if you do a very sharp radius (say an upper horn on a cutoway) it is better to be in the .06-.065" range(this will pose no structural issues, because the area of a tight bend becomes very strong due to the bend itself). peace,Rich

Bookmatching is more for visual reasons. Depending on the grain orientation you may have a more or less stable set when glued. Technically the most stable orientation of grain will be straight longtitudinal grain in the longest length of the board(or body) which would be from the neck to the tail. Radial shrinkage and expansion is typically less than half(although some woods like Khaya, Mahogany and so forth are closer) than tangential. This would mean a quartersawn orientation would typically be the best choice for the next longest length (probably your lower bout). Finally the thinnest part of the board (thickness of a body) would be best orientated to the tangential. Straight grain quartersawn body blank would be the ideal by these rules of thumb. Note; a wood like Khaya is going to have a much closer ratio between radial and tangential shrinkage, this means rigidly adhearing to this rule of thumb is less important. A wood like Madrone for instance has a very low radial shrinkage, but its tangential shrinkage is four times the radial(and fairly high at that), this would mean you really want to pay very close attension to selection with this wood. Peace,Rich

Here is the Omega UK site-link I picked up 6"x36" blankets. It has been handy having a bit of extra width. I can use them side by side for other flattening and bending tasks. If you have trouble figuring out the part or don't see it listed, just give them a call. I know they make both 5" x 36" and 6"x 36". If you can.... Get ahold of a dealer who sells acoustic sets(an acoustic side is wide enough to make a end matched set). Ask them if they have any offcut single sides (in flamed maple if that is your preference). Often when cutting sides you get extra pieces, and these can be purchased inexpensively. If you want you can ask if they have a loose side set(this would yeild two bookmatched sets for your guitar). Flamed Maple sides are not expensive generally, if you can buy a nice board and resaw that would be best (also should be very inexpensive, as the width you are after is small, and easy to come by). Peace,Rich

Your inner lams look pretty wide to me, How do they compair to the nut width? If your inner group of lams are too wide you may have little or no outer lam at the nut. That of course may be what you want, but it is a design consideration for me when making lams. Will this neck need to have any angle to accomodate the bridge? Sounds like you went very close to the body depth, when I am planning for a bit of neck angle I have to add a bit of extra neck blank depth. I do love the look of fine lines using thinner veneers. Rich

There is a big difference in the grain of curly vs quilt vs birdsey. Curly- Best figure is displayed when quartersawn. The grain rises and falls in small waves. Creating a rolling runnout. This is from what I have found to be the most likely to "crack" in a tight bend. It is managable, but you need to be extra careful to get an even heating well ahead and behind the bend, if you don't it will focus the tension and that is when it will crack. Thin the wood around tight bends, do not try to bend thick. Quilt- Best figure is displayed in a flatsawn orientation(generally closest to the outer part of the log,FWIW). The grain rises and falls in wider patterns and generally has a bit more twist and mixing going on. This is not as prone to cracking, because the grains runnout is broader(generally speaking) and not at as sharp an angle in relation to the face. The flaw that is more likely with this figure would be seperation in a tight bend(more akin to shake). Be careful with how much moisture you use because it will create other issue with distortion. Again do not try to bend thick in a tight radius. Birdsey- Flatsawn shows this figure, and the density of eyes increase closer to the center of the tree, often times birdsey develops a mild quilting figure. If anything, the quilt will pose the biggest distortion issues. The eyes of course create spots of high density and low density that can create issues(especially surfacing issues with blades). Take it easy on the moisture, these are not woods you want to soak heavily. The mix of exposed endgrain and sidegrain make them suck up and release water irregularly. Be sure to get the wood up to temp ahead and behind the bend (don't create spots of focused stress), support the wood very well (back and face) while bending. These woods are absolutely best bent with heat blankets and a good solid form. If you use pipe, be sure you have several extra sides, there is a very good chance you will break a set or two. Best of luck! Rich

How thick are the pieces you are using? You can certainly hand sand them(but be careful not to thin too much, .060" is about as thin as you want for a fretboard). You want to make sure not to lose the look of the shell you are cutting, as shell will look better closer to one side(of course you will lose some of that face when you radius your fretboard, but I try to keep as close to the best looking face as possible). I would cut the pattern, CA the inlay together face down, and sand the back surface closer to even. A power sander used with caution and great care to not take too much would do the job also, again sand the back face. Peace,Rich

Mick, You have to understand how wood dries and the tensions that form. Some of which balance out some of which store in a balanced(against the volume of wood that makes up the piece). It is easy to see the tension that builds during drying, because it sometimes becomes so great wood will actually rip itself apart (cracks, checks, shake). Those places where the forces became too great are only the places where the wood actually exceeded the threshold, tension and pressure are still working throughout the board. During intitial drying these forces become strongest beause the wood is changing the most volumetrically. As the wood reaches a dryer point it has gone through many changes and tried to balance out those stresses. This does not mean the wood has realeased all the stress, it has just balanced (hopefully very well). A couple things you have probably done would show you first hand how these things work. Have you ever had a wild grain veneer(thinner wood) that was drying warp like a potato chip after it has dried? Thin wood does not store much tension, because the wood is easily moved, it simply moves with the tension. That is a good way to see first hand how radial, tangential, and longtitudinal shrinkage varies. If you had a veneer that was very straight grained(maybe an acoustic soundboard), you would have probably noted the wood changed in dimension as it dried, but did not warp and twist in different directions as much. Now a thicker piece of wood, say a 8/4 body blank, is not about to move as easily as a thinner piece of wood. Where do you think that tension goes? Well if it does not crack or split, it is going to balance out based on how strong the wood will resist bending. The wood is able to hold its shape based on strength and size. How oddly balanced are the stored tensions in the wood? Look back at thin veneers that could react to the tensions (straight grain, probably very little, wild grain will vary a great deal). These things are easy to test and see first hand, no need for voodoo or magic. I can't imagine a wood worker would go very far without experiencing these things. Now in Perry's case. He understands you need to use clear, straight grain wood and is going to select wood that is not wild or oddly grained(he would be up to his ears in warrenty work if he didn't). He allows it enough time to dry fully before use. He has stacked the cards heavily in his favor. He will probably go a long while before he runs into a board that had a strong imbalance in its stored tension. Most likely he will just toss it and move on, or the dimensional change is small enough that he will square it back up and the wood will be pretty stable in its new shape. In the case of the hobbiest. I suspect you will find more instances of "mysteries", like "the neck warped on me and it was supposed to be dry and everything, how do I fix this? The wood must have been wet... or I bought "bad" wood". This is going to mainly be a product of not selecting properly or understanding why they should do so. I get a bit worried when I see people selecting crazy neck wood or giving advise that these things make no difference. The fact is they do make a difference, but there is little you can say that will convince someone who is not willing to study up on the whats and whys, then look at what is happening in front of them. Worst case you have an issue with a guitar you built, and you deal with yourself for warrenty issues(not a biggy). Select wood that is going to be inherantly stable, very well dried, and stored tesion will not likely be a big issue. If you carve first you can get a picture of what it will want to do closer to its new dimension. If you attach the fretboard first, that may help the wood store more tension after carving and not move as much (the one direction a fretboard will not resist moving much though is in back bow FWIW). If you have a crazy grain fretboard, it may be wanting to move all over the place after surfacing, that will leave it up to the shaft to resist those stresses. To me it makes sense to try to see these things, and build in as little stress to a neck as possible. Manufacturers pay attension to these things because they can't afford the warrenty costs. The neck is the heart of the guitar, I try to do anything I can to make it as stable as possible. Peace,Rich

Looks great Daniel! You are going to love the ease and quality of bends from blankets. A couple things that I might offer as suggestions. Adding a few extra cross slats in tighter beds is a good idea. Also I added a sheet of steel that covers the width of the form. This adds extra support and will smooth out your sides a bit (very nice), and will especially help prevent cracking or poor bending around the horn and cutoway. Simple added feature, and makes very thin slats like the ones you are using perform better(and those thin slats are great for bending cutoways) Peace,Rich

Derek, I think Woodenspoke pretty much nailed it. At this point you really don't have a point of reference, and I am not really sure how much time you have spent setting up planes(if you are experienced and can set up a regular plane well, a spokeshave is pretty much the same gig). I can tell you the Veritas low angle is a monkey from a different tree(setup and adjustments are not as most planes are set up). Personally, I found the adjustability to be very straight forward and I would imagine it would be easier for a person who is new to planes(the sole is adjusted not the blade, which actually allows you to say place a feeler gauge under the shoe while holding the spokeshave down to a good flat surface and tighten the set screws- BAM your done). If you are used to planes, you will do what I did and stare at the thing, thinking that doesn't look right (actually the salesman that sold it to me couldn't figure it out, until we pulled out the manual). Out of the box the blade was pretty sharp, but kinda makes little difference to me as sharpening is a part of using any blade(be sure you are up to speed sharpening, or come up to speed. You will never be happy with any of your bladed tools till you can put the good edge on them). The benifit to the Veritas low angle spokeshave is all in the sole(which can be flipped for a wider or tight radiused sole). Beyond that... the set up is kinda good and bad, it is easy-good, it is not going to help you get used to regular plane set ups-not so good. You will never go wrong with Lie Neilson(fine quality tools), but you have to learn how to properly use, and maintain them. There are plenty of spokeshave out there(more standard style) that are absolutely viable tools for less money, but this will add to your learning curve(again I see that as both good and bad). For the money I think the Veritas is reasonable. Anytime money is a big consideration though, my first thought is buy a well used second hand tool. Often you can find a nice well set up stanley for maybe $10-20 second hand or well used antiques for a bit more and not break the bank. Avoid buying a poorly set up cheap tool that never really was used, because it is not likely a bargain (they are cheap to begin with). As Spoke mentioned, you still need to use other tools along with a spokeshave for neck shaping. Peace,Rich

That is a really nice looking guitar, you do beautiful work . I wonder if Jim has seen this thread, he is a member of this forum, and I bet he would be flattered that you liked his Swan enough to build with it in mind. Any chance you live in the Portland area? I haven't been in touch with him for a while, but he is in this neck of the woods. Maybe you could contact him and try out one of his Swans, and maybe even let him look over your handy work. Peace,Rich

Hey JJ, You better watch your manners, they run a little tighter ship around here than the OLF There are a lot of great members here. I am sure you will fit right in. Rich

Andy Depaule. Website Depaule Supply. Your welcome. He is a very nice guy. Actually I better make a list of wants, so I can stock up at the Handmade Instrument Show in a couple weeks. He lets you look through boxes and boxes of shell to pick out anything you want. Actually a very good idea, I always buy 4 times what I should. Peace,Rich

Just for everyones info the steel city is good equipment and has gotten good ratings. The problem is the service on parts and service in general. I've heard from Woodcraft that they no longer will order steel city because of the backorder and service. I hear alsoi that Steel city is working on this problem as they did not expect the initial influx of orders and hopefully will have this resolved soon. Just what I've heard through the Grapevine!!!!!!!!!1 mk Just an update, I actually ran into a problem with my Steel City Bandsaw. One side of the fences locking mehanism actually cracked, now for what it is worth a I drive that fence very hard with large lumber and stiff clamping (so I was not shocked when this happened). I picked up the phone, called customer service, they transfered me to the parts dept. The machine is under its five year warrenty. They are shipping the part today and I should have it by the end of the week. Very pleasant to deal with, very fast responce. I don't often have to deal with customer service, but Steel City seemed to perform in this area as well as could be hoped for. Thought it was worth mentioning, Rich