Andyjr1515

Hi, Chris

The limiting factor is usually the length of the tuner posts...  Too thick and there often isn't enough room to fully wind the strings or, in the case of top screwed collar designs, enough catch on the screw thread.

Andy

58 minutes ago, ScottR said:

On the other hand I can certainly see the appeal of the challenge.

SR

Yes - to be honest, although I didn't commit at that stage and made it clear to Tom that it might not be able to be done, part of me was thinking that it would be pretty cool if it could!

I took the wood back with me and mulled over the options.

First off, it was clear that a bolt-on neck of any sort was out of the question as it stood - the body, at its thickest, is not much deeper than a neck at the nut!

As far as I could see, there were three options:

• Go conventional - ie skim the back flat and glue it onto a bass-thickness lump of alder, mahogany, basswood, etc.  Conventional but a bit boring for such an unusual piece of wood.  This is the only option where a bolt-on would have been feasible
• Go semi-conventional - ie through-neck, probably wider at the body than normal, cut the body into two and glue them on as thin 'wings' .  Seemed a shame to lose so much of the top face - with its very unusual grain, colour and primitive-style carve marks and gouges
• Go unconventional.  IF it would hold together during the construction process, basically build a neck, with everything needing strength either bolted, glued or screwed onto it, then do my routed-slot approach to slip the body over the neck.  Basically, the neck would be the bass, and the body would be pretty much pure decoration.  That might JUST work...

Tom, however, also wanted some very specific specifics:

• A 34.5" scale
• Removable (replaceable) truss rod
• Carbon rod neck reinforcement
• Cocobolo fretboard
• The option to have a non-symmetrical neck profile
• Use a recycled Ibanez bridge
• Fit a single EMG passive p/up  
• Neutrik locking jack

Interestingly, the one area of concern I had was that last one - those jacks are designed to plug in vertically.  A jack 'prong' is over 1.25" long.  The body, where the jack needed to be was just over 0.5" deep...

...there were going to need to be some style or functional compromises along the way....

These were my initial drawings:

If you haven't already lost count of them, I'll point out a few of the construction challenges in this design in the next post  

49 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

There's all kinds of wrong in there

 There certainly are!  And, as I will describe, the more it went on, the wronger they became....  

Good progress, Norris 

Oh, now then....the others are interesting and innovative design.  This one is a thing of real beauty.  I LOVE the look of this one......

Or could it be Bubinga ?  Although that would be an unusual timber for a boats floor!  I have an offcut I'll post tomorrow.  It looks very similar, is very heavy and hard as hell!

Hi

In my Alder and Camphor bass thread, I've made reference a couple of times to one of my more unusual builds - Tom's African Fretless Bass

It had some challenges quite new to me and forced me to re-evaluate what REALLY matters and, alternatively, where you can take a few liberties on a typical bass build.  It also was one of those builds where the customer had quite fixed ideas on some of the things he wanted (which I always find quite helpful) but some of those things were sometimes at the very edge of the possible.

It started with a meeting at my local railway station.  Tom - a contact from one of the UK-hosted bass forums (basschat) - was mid travel between London and the UK Midlands and had asked if I could meet to discuss a potential project over a cup of British Rail coffee.

Out of his large holdall, he pulled out this:

Tom explained that he visits and plays in a number of bands in Africa and on one visit he'd talked to a guy who makes traditional african drums and they had mused whether you could make a bass out of the same wood.

At his next visit to Africa, and to Tom's surprise, the guy presented Tom with this piece of wood...who then, on a rainy UK railway platform, presented it to me.

Tom wasn't sure what the wood was.  Tom wasn't sure how, or even IF, it had been conditioned.  Neither Tom nor I  were sure why the dark brown bits were as hard and brittle as glass, and yet  the lighter bits as soft and open as balsa.  The carvers clearly hadn't been sure what thickness is regarded as a normal minimum for a bass body...this one varied between 1/2" and 7/8".  Nor were the carvers aware what width or depth a neck pocket would normally be...this one was 30% wider than a normal bass neck and had about 3mm of balsa-wood looking timber to bolt anything onto.

So Tom's question was - pulling out from his holdall an old Ibanez GIO neck -   could I make a bass out of those two pieces? 

You know those times when all of your instincts are 'No - walk away from this one!'...

...and then your mouth says 'I'm not sure -  but, well, you never know... I tell you what ... I'll take the bits away with me  and see what I can come up with....'  

Back to the present build, I caught a bit of dry between the rain showers and managed to slim the 'real' fretboard down by 1.5mm and get a 12" radius on it:

This is rough sanded but fully radiused.  It will be rechecked for straightness and fine sanded once it's been glued onto the neck.

Tomorrow, I will be checking all the heights and angles and, all going well, possibly gluing the neck into the body.

3 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

"Unforgiving" is kindly polite given how painful Wengé splinters are, and their tendency to go septic. 

It's just such a hard wood. Whenever it comes off a planer or jointer, you can clearly see the individual blade swipes. That never fills me with confidence, especially when the trailing blade partially burnishes it as it passes over. I'm likely just obsessive over this because I see problems where they usually don't need to exist. Better safe than sorry. Nothing a quick pass with a sanding block or through a thickness sander can't solve. That opens the surface fibres up nicely to let the glue do its job.

That is a bit of an unusual bass in places. I look forward to seeing exactly why....it looks like a thick neck, so I expect that it sounds mighty!

Yes - I'm very careful about splinters for this wood!

The other bass - yes...quite a thick neck....long story which I will relate when I kick off the thread about that build.  That said, it actually is only 25mm ... it is a bit of an illusion because the body is ridiculously thin   

5 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Actually, I've never had problems glueing Wengé with Titebond. I think that with it being such a hard coarse wood, there is less opportunity to compress mating surfaces together. Softer woods like Mahoganies can be pressed together so much that under clamping pressure any slight surface variations just disappear. I have trouble finding gluelines in Khaya for example.

I wouldn't say that it is difficult to glue, more that it is "unforgiving".

Yes - a better turn of phrase, Prostheta.   The good news with the veneer I'm using is that it is open- grained enough for the glue to intermingle with the fibres.  The 'less forgiving' bit is the oiliness of the wood itself.  Nowhere as bad as, say, cocbolo, but less forgiving than some.

Great looking build. Very stylish and excellently crafted.

That looks delightful. Great job!

2 hours ago, MasterOfTheWind said:

I also wanted to keep the body really clean and haven't decided what imprint I want on it and where, that is why I did it on the rear electronics cover... Which is BTW held by 6 super strong magnets...

I like that feature very much 

By the way, I alluded early in the thread that, last year, I had done a very unusual project that had forced me to re-evaluate what was critical and what wasn't in a build.  This was the resulting bass:

Over the next couple of days, I will see if I can kick off a thread explaining how this one came about and the fairly unique design and construction considerations.  It had every chance at a number of stages of just falling to bits, but is regularly shipped around and played in Europe and Africa and hasn't....yet.  It is actually constructed with very similar build concepts.  The difference is that this one is 1" thick and made of wood that resembles balsa in parts!!!! 

1 hour ago, psikoT said:

I have a couple of question, if you don't mind:

When you glue the neck to the body, are you going to apply pressure also on the sides or just on the top?...

And, are you going to use epoxi to fill the gap, or just titebond? I'm worried about the flatness of the top after glueing the neck... 

No problem, psikoT

The clamping will be the neck to the top.  The sides are now immovable in any case but are a very close sliding fit so there will not be any gap between them and the neck.  

My logic is as follows: from a functional point of view, for a through-neck, most of the strength is in the neck, where both the nut and bridge are screwed.  The top adds further strength, particularly as the pickup routing will have slotted away 2/3 of the neck's depth.  The back wings, from a strength point of view, have no structural value, so it is the bond between the neck and the top that is critical, not the neck and the back wings.

I might use epoxy, but simply because the demarcation veneer I've used under the camphor is wenge, which isn't great glued with titebond.  In normal circumstances, I would use titebond

The neck and top are at the same level (the joint still has to be flossed, but that won't affect the neck height in relation to the body):

Before I glue the fretboard, I'll run a sanding beam across the top of the neck and the top to make sure it can be glued snug and flat.

I don't know if that explanation makes any sense?

Andy

Very good advice, Prostheta 

I keep looking at the body on this.  I love the folds in the carve.  Maybe just needs a more fancy headstock to match?  I think the shape's fine but maybe a decal or some patterning?

15 hours ago, MenO said:

oh yes, not a good picture... unfortunately I saw it first hand... hahahha ... lesson learned right? "Respect the router"

I always try to have a healthy fear of the power tools when I'am using them.

 

Of all the power tools, routers are probably one of the most potentially hazardous.  Whereas a circular saw can have your arm off in the blink of an eye, it doesn't usually have the potential to leap out of your grip and play havoc with everything between you and its final resting place (which is usually a part of your anatomy!) on the way down ;)

46 minutes ago, ScottR said:

So do you set the neck and then the fretboard?

This is starting to be like a mystery movie.....what the hell is going to happen next?

Very cool!

SR

Usually, Scott.  For this build, I actually have the possibility of gluing the fretboard and even fretting it, before gluing the neck, but that's probably taking it a step too far!

Andy

On 11/20/2015, 4:28:39, ScottR said:

Wow.  You set the bar pretty dang high for your second one, didn't you.

SR

  I know what you mean, Scott

The basic construction should be similar to my OM.  I was also pleased that the lacewood has proved to be OK to work with and bend - I had thought it might be a bit brittle but it has been OK.

The only really high bar, is going for a dovetail.  I'm going to build a proper jig (simpler, but based on the O'Brian / LMI concept) and do two or three trial runs with scrap timber and blocks before I finalise on the dovetail rather than a bolted or glued tenon.

This one is running very much in the background so lots of time to ponder between steps!

Andy 

On 11/20/2015, 4:36:32, ScottR said:

Now that you mention it. I can see a custom leather motorcycle seat in that last shot.

SR

Well - a bit of dry weather should have heralded me doing useful things around the house and garden but, heck, it isn't dry in the UK very often so bass-building came to mind first 

I got chance to bandsaw the basic shape for the neck.  

First, got the body thickness cut:

Then the basic side thickness and shape.  Here it is with the spare ebony fretboard blank, loose-slotted into the body:

With the actual fretboard, it was a generous 8.5mm thick.  However, I am trying to match the customer's favourite bass which has a very slim, constant depth neck and, with the truss-rod slot, would have got too close to breakthrough.  So also this morning, I shaved 1.5mm off the fretboard which gives me a workable bulk when I come to shape the neck.

For me personally, this is where my slightly unconventional build method  gives me a tangible advantage.  With all the tweaks here and there - and with my less than perfect technique - everything often has cumulatively shifted enough from the original planned dimensions and angles to give issues with action  / bridge height,  etc.  What I am able to do, is finish all of the key steps, then recheck the neck depth and angle (and if necessary tweak) and know rather than hope that, once it's glued in and immoveable, it's going to be in the right place 

The headstock will have a couple of wings glued to it and an ebony faceplate with my 'swifts' moniker in MoP

Thanks for looking and for the kind and encouraging comments from my earlier posts 

Andy

Insane (in the best meaning of the word) 

I take it not ALL of the colour emanated from your finger?  On that assumption, what stain did you use?

Andy

1 minute ago, ScottR said:

That looks like it will be nice and comfy.

SR

I know what you mean - it looks like a well upholstered cushion 

48 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

I didn't realise he was still trading! I bought some amazing Macassar Ebony from him many years ago which arrived split. Such a shame, it really was.

There were two companies with the name exotic hardwoods - don't know if it is the same one.  I think the other one has gone.  

The one I use is here http://www.exotichardwoodsukltd.com/ and Kirk, who is the owner is very much trading.  He sells to a number of sectors but has a number of highly regarded guitar and bass builders on his books.  I've found the timbers generally good, although they do not arrive 'ready to use' and can be a bit pricey.  Good website, though, where you can see the specific items you are buying for things like tops and back/side sets.  It's where I got the lacewood walnut and spruce for my acoustic builds.  All of those were tip top quality (although I was in the fortunate position of being able to hand-pick).

4 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

Very nice! What kind of bracing approach are you taking?

Thanks, Prostheta!

I'm afraid I'm going fully 'conventional' Martin-based 'X' brace pattern.

I've only built one acoustic before, the OM model below having assumed it would be well beyond my capabilities. So I followed every standard tip and hint and design I could find and - even though I would have been happy and amazed with the achievement if it had sounded like a rubber band across a baked-bean can - to my utter surprise, it actually sounds GREAT!

So - because this is a special one, I'm sticking, for once, with known and well-trodden paths.

I built the OM for my own use and couldn't be more happy with it (and still have to pinch myself and think - did I really build that???).  The walnut back was another piece from exotichardwoodsukltd...and like the camphor, he's never had anything like it in since 

Since these early pictures, the top has matured to a rich orange-brown.  I'm delighted with it on all counts