Mike.Mara

You should be, It looks incredible! If mine looks half as good when I'm done I'll be happy with it.

Wow that's beautiful. Nice to see people still building solid furniture. I didn't know that about the Greenes... Learn something new every day

My bad, didn't realise how old this thread was... Still interesting to see peoples opinions though lol.

It's a beautiful looking guitar! Love the mahogany and purpleheart through neck too. I still might make one eventually. They should still make them for guys like us, I'd buy one. It shouldn't be too long a wait now to see how it turns out... I'm eager to see how it goes too lol. I have repaired guitars (Minor repairs) but never built one so I hope it turns out OK. It's just final sanding and finishing now on the body. Mike. BTW... Your submission into GOTM is damned sexy!

A Greene and Greene inspired guitar would be a difficult thing to design I would imagine. Their furniture has always inspired me to be better at woodworking, I'd love to build a replica piece one day. I think it looks stunning as it is but more red isn't going to hurt. Either way with grain patterning like that it's going to be beautiful! The chatoyance of shellac mixed with any mahogany/mahogany like species is always going to be a winner. Mike.

OK... I have a little progress, But first the upsetting part, sanding off all the lacquer I'd put on after sanding through. I have it re-dyed but it's not quite as nice as it was. And here we have the neck after french polishing... Still don't know if I will take it any further, the finish is quite nice at a satin on the glossy side. I decided not to fill the walnut pores, It's just sanded to 800 grit then acrylic sanding sealer then smoothing that with 2500 grit and a few sessions with a pad and mineral oil as the lubricant. It's extremely slick and there's more coats on the headstock to give that a bit more gloss than the back of the neck. And now for some fun! That compressor I mentioned in an earlier post... I went out and got a small airbrush compressor in the hope of using it for a few thin spray coats to stop the dye migrating over the natural scraped edge. Turns out you could only run it for 20 mins at a time so it's pretty useless for it's intended purpose which is something I'd like to learn... Airbrushing! So I took it back and exchanged it for parts to get my bigger compressor up and running, Specifically, a moisture trap and a touch-up spray system. After what I've been informed is about 3 years since I received it, I fired it up and it works... So now I have a choice to make, Learn to spray the first few coats or just french polish and accept there will be some dye migration and try to minimise it by polishing in a certain order... You can tell it's never been used huh... If I don't use it on this build It'll definitely be making an appearance on my next... Even if just for sealer. Unless I use an oil finish. I know what the next one will be but no idea of what woods yet so that will probably be the deciding factor on oil, lacquer or poly via Andyjr1515's suggestion. Anyone care to chime in and suggest spraying or french polishing? Spraying will be followed by polishing anyway just to give a smoother surface finish. Mike.

I'd go with textured rather than smooth... I feel on open pored woods the light just reflects better off of shellac when not ultra smooth. The test piece you did for example is ultra sexy! I take back what I said about colour filling in my build thread. Mike. Edit: Lovely bit of Greene And Greene there...

Nylon strung 8 string guitars sound beautiful! Looking forward to seeing how this turns out! Especially the cutaway.

I use D'Addario and have for years since I thought I'd splash the cash on a whim to see if they were better than Ernie Balls... I did not regret it. Never had one snap unless I've done alot of tuning up and down and they were old. Tried Dean Markley too, probably second to D'Addario for me personally. I've used almost everything from 9's to custom gauges (12, 16, 22w, 34, 44, 70.) and never been disappointed like I was when I got a new set of the Ernie Balls and immediately during tuning had the high E snap... That happened way too often!

Indeed there are! Morrells for example make waterborne UV curable lacquers that unfortunately you can only buy 20L at a time, waaayyy more than most people who build alot could use in a few years. And of course there are the companies that sell UV cure polyester, vinyl ester and epoxy resins that are great because before dust has a chance to settle it's cured. But they all have the witness line problems with the possible exception of Morrells, but I haven't looked into it because I don't need 20L when this is my first build and I may not get around to a second until next year... Even then. There is a surprisingly large market gap here, not just for people who build guitars but all woodworkers. Especially the impatient ones like me . Sunlight or atleast low level UV cured lacquers would be a dream come true since guys like me who don't have access to a reasonable spray environment or a place to hang things for a few weeks/months while a finish cures would love them! If I do come across anything I'll be sure to let everyone here know about it. Something you could decant into a Preval unit for example would be great. And yeah... Our weather here isn't the best, It's either raining, too cold, too humid, too warm or too windy. I'll definitely give the poly tutorial you gave a go as it appears to be easy enough to get on with. I'll maybe try it with a lacquer too since my compatibility test came out better than my real finish.

Holy cow... That is one nice finish! The stuff I was referring to is the slightly-better-than DIY store stuff. I used Polyvine Acrylic Lacquer on a test piece and after 3 days it was hard enough to sand and after 5 was extremely difficult to put a nail dent in, and I layed that stuff on THICK and probably trapped the solvents in. Or there is an acrylic urethane that a luthier supply store sells which is nice as trying to find it in bedroom builder quantities is near impossible. The problem I have with finishes that don't "melt" into the other layers is I'm not delicate with sanding or levelling no matter how hard I try. Your process appears to be more ideal for me though as there is less room for my errors! Plus it's bedroom friendly and you've explained it so thoroughly that it's basically a step-by-step varnish by numbers that I'm sure even I would find hard to mess up. I'm currently looking into the chemistry of UV cured finishes in the hope I can find a way of making a lacquer cure by sunlight like Solarez but that has the ability to "melt" to the layers underneath. I imagine it will be a fruitless effort since I'm not a chemist and have no desire to dedicate years of my life to become one but something like that for bedroom builders would be an awesome way for people to get high quality finishes in less than ideal conditions. I think I might grab some poly and use your technique on some scrap pieces of wood to see how it goes... I could really use an easy bedroom finish like yours... Plus it's beautiful so that helps too .

Damn straight there is merit to this! Since you're in the UK, what brand of poly do you use? Every can I've seen says do not thin or not recommended. Also, have you tried this with lacquer? There are acrylic, acrylic/urethane (PRS use this one) and the nasty ones such as melamine and cellulose that are all readily available and in non-aerosol form. Those would maybe mitigate the witness lines if I'm correct in my thinking. Either way, I would like to be brought up to date! Your description in that tutorial was extremely helpful and thorough. Thanks, Mike.

Ohhh... So there is hope! I'm in-between shellac coats at the moment and it's coming up beautifully. (On the neck at least... The dye on the body is still drying.) I forgot how much I enjoy french polishing. Unfortunately my "logo" was done in an alcohol based silver ink before when I was going to use acrylic so that came up a mess... Sanded off relatively well... I may use black polish to get one in. I was going to spray some coats but forgot to grab a respirator since you know... Methanol and all... So I'm just going old-school and hoping it continues to build well. I'm definitely going to have to look into getting them done somewhere else though provided the price isn't too bad. I have less than adequate spraying conditions and at the rate I'll be building guitars I can't justify kitting out for it.

Exactly... I tried and I know not to try again! (At least on a guitar/anything that's stained.) I can dedicate the time to it and I enjoy the process, it's just a tad slow. I'll most likely be spraying on the first few coats just to seal in the dye and stop it from leeching when I polish. All the grain filler is now gone but I do love a raw wood finished with shellac so at least that's going for me hey! I'll most likely be going for a satin that's more on the shiny side now. Unfortunately the re-dye didn't go as well, maybe it's the humidity or just slowly being beaten down by finishes. Hopefully from here all will go relatively smoothly. I just want to play the damned thing! If only there were a service to just send off the sanded body to be lacquered... Or like I've said before, I were rich enough to get a UV lamp and some UV lacquer . Mike.

Indeed it is! It does take a long time to do but the time goes quickly. I may have to try hand rubbing lacquer on a piece of scrap just to see if I can do it... Sounds interesting and if Andyjr1515 has any tips, That would be greatly appreciated! I've decided on shellac for this build since I am a hell of a lot better at french polishing than I am brushing lol (I really need to learn better finishing techniques.). Plus It's a beautiful finish, I'll just have to be quite a bit more careful with how I handle this guitar. Not looking forward to all the lacquer sanding before I can even start though... Plus re-dying... Oh well, we do what we must.

Thanks for the tips @Prostheta. I sadly sanded through the lacquer though so It's a complete do-over. Not sure what to do now... I'm not waiting for another paint/cure cycle to just do the same thing again. Maybe I should just use oil and be done with it at a satin finish. At least I learned one thing... Finishing is worse than sanding lol. I was looking forward to getting it finished within the next few days as that lacquer really did cure in the time stated. Maybe my tried and true shellac would be my best bet... I'd just have to handle this guitar with more care than my others. Time to mull it all over and try not to let it get to me too much, I knew this was a possibility.

Lol... Any links you could provide? Brushing isn't something I've done much. About all I know is brushes matter and cheap ones usually don't cut it. My old desk had quite a few shed bristles stuck in it but the surface was OK in the end.

I would totally agree if I had a spray system for my compressor! I did get it for that reason... Well it was a birthday present a few years back and I've never even turned it on. Anyway... I ended up taking the plunge on the brushing stuff since when I called the rattle can company again today to see if I could get anyone a bit more helpful, they told me 24 hours to be safe before wet sanding and buffing but at least this guy didn't laugh at me. I decided to just lightly scuff the top of the cavity cover with 800 and man it still smells like yesterday under that top bit like I knew it would... 24 hours my ass. So yeah I got the brushing stuff and did a compatibility test and it self levels a dream and even though I rubbed it on with a paper towel it's smoother than the spray. Plus I have an Idea of how long it will take to fully cure as their datasheet included that useful information... And doesn't smell nearly half as bad. Got a decent brush too BTW. Mike.

Damn... Found an acrylic gloss lacquer with a drying time/recoat time of 2 hours and a cure time of up to 5 days at 20°C. It's down-side is that it's brushed... Now, does my impatience over-ride my dislike of sanding...

Good tip! Mine are also rattle cans but from a woodworking company. If only shellac were a more hardwearing finish! Someone really needs to create a rattle can lacquer finish with a UV cure process that can be cured with sunlight like Solarez resin. I would buy that stuff by the case! But alas I'm too poor to afford one of those UV cure lamps... And Solarez cures in layers so it's one thick coat or not at all. I guess it's just a long wait before I get to test it out. Patience is not one of my qualities. Mike.

That makes sense. I have seen some waterborne lacquers that are resistent to water for months on end so hopefully this is one and my sweat won't soften it.

6 months... Damn, I hope mine doesn't take that long lol. I've heard anything between a week to now 6 months so I guess I'll just have to wait and see. Any idea how long until it's good enough to buff and play?

Progress! I got the top dyed and sanding sealer on the body and neck. All Sanded nice and smooth and ready for clear coat. And on that note... Companies should really make sure their employees know what they're talking about... I rang the manufacturer of the finish and the guy on the phone basically laughed when I said "I know how long it takes to dry, but how long to cure?" and informed me that the 20mins dry time was it... That's as much as it will ever dry and that it air dries not cures. Now I'm no expert on finishes but lacquers cure right? And I assume that if it still smells almost as much as when it comes out the can then the finish is not cured, let alone dry. Especially when you can scratch said finish with your nail after an hour. (Accident on the control cavity cover... It's dry but not hard.) Anyway... I got rained off finishing today but I just managed to squeeze in getting the sealer on the neck before it started. Apparently my guitar has not gone down well with the wildlife as just as I was coming in... A bird pooped on me. . Needless to say I was not amused as until that point I'd been having a nice day. And here is a picture... The lighting makes it look a lot darker than it is, It's the same colour as the control cavity plate pictured a few posts above. It's a lot less maple-y now which is nice for me. Still undecided if I should do something to the headstock or not. I like it but it's not what I'm used to seeing as all of my guitars have painted headstocks. I think I may just stick to a full dye or just natural wood in future as the natural "binding" was a real pain. It's still not perfect but it's good enough. To quote Aaron Blaise "Finished not perfect." Sometimes you just have to accept that it can't be how you want. But hey... It is my first and all of the mistakes/successes are being stored away in my mind for the next attempt. And I already know what that's going to be! . Mike.

More work today... I must say, so far I love this grain filler! Aside from the smell lingering in your nose for hours and the glass dust when sanding, it works superbly and in just one thicker coat and a sanding then a thinner coat it seems to have filled all the pores. I'll check in a few days after sanding it down. It could almost be used as a satin finish on it's own if it was more resistant to scratching. This is the colour the guitar was going to be until my other half quite rightly (and you'll see why in a bit) said turquoise would be nicer. That was only one coat. But here's what colour it's going to be... 3 coats of dye here. (Weird stuff, it's like a paint that you smear on, wait and then wipe off. It has an acrylic binder in it so it seals the maple at the same time as being compatible with my finish lol, And the colours they make are awesome and inter-mixable.) This is just pure dye... None of that dye black (Or other colour) and sand back, dye a different colour stuff. I did think of doing purple, sand back then turquoise so I'd have dark blue/purpleish curl but that didn't work out too well in tests. It made the nice curl look like it might have well just been a veneer and when you're working with the more expensive billet form the last thing you want is for it to look like a veneer. I'm sure there are some guys here that make veneers look awesome but I'm not one of them sadly. Anyway... To the grain filled body... I've only filled the mahogany since the maple doesn't really need it and like I pointed out earlier the dye does a pretty good job of sealing. (And I have a can of sanding sealer.) But the main reason for that was when I mask the mahogany off while staining, even if some gets under the tape it'll be unable to penetrate into the pores making it easier to get off. You can see the grain figuring I was talking about now more clearly, it has a beautiful ribbon figuring that's just as active from different angles as the maple. Unfortunately when I was drilling for the ferrule holes I let my mind slip and 2 of the holes are slightly off. It'll still work but it's not as pretty. The weird white stuff is the grain filler, I scraped that out later. And that's all for the next few days since I have stuff to do. . But it is starting to get closer to finishing which is good as the next step after that is soldering, setup and playing! All things I enjoy. I may have to ring the manufacturer of the lacquer to get an idea of cure times though... Mike.

I think we could all use more hours in the day... I'll be waiting on those videos! I love to watch woodworking videos and build videos are always fun. Sorry for your loss of machinery I will be doing multiple coats, I'd like an almost glass smooth finish... I'm not expecting terrific results considering I've never done this kind of finishing before but I'd like it nice enough. Yeah I didn't think breathing in the silica sounded right either... That's why people wear masks while working with any kind of powdered glass, fibreglass ect. But that's probably why I passed my Health And Safety at Work exam top of my class, It's all common sense. If in doubt, always use more PPE than you think you need. Like you said, you don't want do be breathing in any kind of dust so why would silica be any different... Might as well go lick some lead paint while you're at it, It won't hurt at first but if you do it enough... I watched a video of a guy using this stuff and he basically buffed it in with a paper towel so I might give that a go just with a cotton rag instead. Will hopefully reduce the amount of sanding later. Mike.