Bjorn.LaSanche

7 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

what I didn't know is that the guitar you referred to as having was not an actual 67.  that explains a lot.  further, there you go - the people who have all the access in the world to the shape of multiple real 67s, plus archives of blueprints used to make actual 67s.... well they came up with your actual reissue.  It may not be accurate to other 67s but my guess is there is an actual 67 somewhere that they picked to clone, that it adheres to quite well.

It is not an actual 67 but I do have access to one and my own guitar and the 67 have the same lines albeit it is actually a bit less refined than mine.  Made by hand vs machine made but all dimensions are close enough  to justify calling mine a 67 body/headstock model as all modern flying Vs are as they are all based of that Flying V model revision and only the 58 by shape. If you get me. 

It’s also fairly odd that you guys are I forming me that plans for guitars are essentially loose guides than using them as blueprints.  I will take your suggestion under advisement. 

9 hours ago, curtisa said:

Any possibility your printer is printing them out a scale other than 1:1? Could errors in the print be skewing the way the actual printed drawing is appearing?

 

In his defence, I don't hink he is offering a definitve plan service that will yield a perfectly accurate design for a specific guitar. The wording on the Guitar Plan Reference page at his wesite states (emphasis mine):

Does the Flying V plan even indicate it's based on a particular model from a specfic year? Even the original makers of instruments were known to change specs and measurements at their leisure, so offering a plan that satisfies one particular version of an instrument might not be practical, where the possibility of differences between the drawing and several production models from the same era might exist anyway.

 

Probably unnecessary to get involved in that level of feedback with him. Not so much from an ethicality point of view, but moreso because I suspect he'll just respond that his plans are offered as a way to get you a Flying V-looking instrument that doesn't raise the hackles of the original copyright and/or trademark holder, or that he cannot offer plans that cater for any and every available iteration of the original design.

Thanks Curtis, I am feeling fairly similar to what you mentioned regarding feedback with the guy.  The discrepancies I’m getting on the plans alone were my main reason for wanting to touch base with him. 
 

The plan set I purchased is a set of three pages showing various profiles of the same guitar depending what you are wanting to focus on.  Me thing I do like about them is that the headstock looks and measured on paper sized different depending on which way you’re looking at it so at least that aspect follows ones perspective on how a headstock measures out.  It looks shorter if looking at it head on, but once you flip the instrument 90 degrees to check its profile, the headstock length sorts itself out.  (These aren’t the discrepancies I was concerned about though.  

6 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

having recently studied a number of threads on the 59 burst... would agree with @curtisa that the variation in instruments makes it such that comparing an exact trace of one instrument to another from the same year would yield surprising variation.  even if you cut those two instruments on cnc... they would get sanded by hand... and one guy sands this way and another that way.  back then the variances would be wildly greater.  even patterns get worn down to a nub and introduce more variance.  

I would say... you are setup to make the most exacting copy of your guitar by having it there.  trace it and make templates.  My experience with plans is that they are merely a guide.  Even the best I've seen are going to require some 'off roading'.  

Yeah I’m reading one now on the Telecaster site where there is actually a photo of a V with lopsided shoulders.  
 

you guys do know that the original model and the modern variant are actually very distinct from each other. Enough difference that altogether could be compared to a Gibson and a Jackson V.  As I wrote earlier and it got disappeared, the 58 and Epiphone model reminds me of a guy in drag trying to look like a sexy woman of the late 1950s. Thing J Edgar Hoover. The 67 and modern version reminds my of just on the scene Debbie Harry back in 76. 
 

and my dumbass is using my guitar as main model a 67 body and headstock with 58 contools. Im such a glutton for punishment. 

Last idea is that you mention that the issue is on the instruments you built this year?  If it is fret buzz, we’re all the guitars built using the Sam batch of fret wire?  Could you have gotten a batch of bad wire where the size of the wire is off somewhere or the tang is separating from the fret after installation?

I am trying to use the body curves on my V to draw up a set of good plans for a ‘67 style  Flying V as there are none online and the ones online are all different and most have glaring mistakes.  The only one I have not seen is Crimson’s version, but postage between the UK sand USA can suck it.  Postage is more than the $27 set of plans.  
 

I picked up a set from Gen One Luthier Supply. I’ll be very polite and say they are nice line drawings.  1:1 print results in a top down increase the the body and neck of 5% for the body and 7% increase in size of the neck. I won’t go into the measurements as they are not correct on 1:1 print to the drawing on the paper let alone comparing measurement to measurement with the actual instrument.  The headstock curves are correct. Straight lines are not. Mainly being either the states length is one length while the actual drawing is smaller with the real headstock being somewhere in between.  The Shoulder body curves are correct as are the wing tips.  The crotch he has as a .75” radius circle. Not remotely a correct size as that is the one thing on the guys plans that throws the whole body plan off. The ‘58 crotch size isn’t right either.  I don’t have a circle template large enough to  put it up against my guitars body to determine what size it is.  I also suck at backward engineering tangents. 
 

so I am asking you guys if any of you know? Possibly written down somewhere?

Another question I have is, would it be unethical to correct measurements discrepancies by using paper measurements as well as measurements based off my actual guitar?

I would then like to notate them on the digital copies of the plans I bought and email a corrected set back to the guy at Gen One?  I don’t want to insult the man nor burn a bridge, but there are a lot, I mean a LOT of measurements that aren’t even correct using his drawing to verify the measurement he has on paper.  I wanted to correct the ones that are incorrect on the drawing then under his paper measurements include the one off my instrument. 
I am asking what you guys think because the difference in size like the difference between a Jackson Double Rhoads/ original King V and a modern Jackson King V.  His measurements make the resulting guitar body larger than a ‘58 in comparison to a ‘67/modern V.  

On 11/15/2005 at 6:42 PM, Donnie B. said:

I have a 1996 Warwick Corvette standard that is cool cause it has the older 100% wenge neck (a beautiful deep rich dark color - almost black). 96 was the last year they made them this way cause they found the workers who did the neck shaping were getting ill from the wenge wood dust.

 

They now have changed to an ovankel (sp?) neck with just the fretboard made from wenge.

 

Oh, and it's currently on Ebay btw..........

I love how we get looks. I’ve no clue about what dust does to you but I hate sanding it.  It doesn’t like to be sanded.  Those oil filled razor sharp hook fibers it’s comprised of are evil.  

On 7/24/2005 at 10:12 PM, q83 said:

Hey! yet another reason not to work with Oak!

There’s another after it turns black and perm-stains your skin under your fingernails? By merely looking at it too boot. 

Checking his store out now. 

On 7/24/2020 at 2:40 PM, Crusader said:

I was always very intrigued with music and in High School a friend of mine was a big fan of Slade. Dave Hill the lead guitarist had a thing called "The Super Yob" I would draw body designs in boring classes like English and Social Studies and finally made it in 1994. It was originally headless as you can see the tuning pegs used to be at the bas of the guitar (didn't work very well) I just used the fretboard and truss rod off a broken neck I got from somewhere. Made of Jarrah out off the firewood heap 

  

Serious Bowie worship there. Hats off to you. 

I have to laminate this Bloodwood board for the body of the V I’m about to start building week after next.  Why not?  All the fancy Ibanez Rockett Roll V’s were thickness laminated. 

Have you checked to ensure none of the hardware is cracked along the string path.  Especially check the face side of the headstock tuner collars.  Mainly along the threaded portion.  I had a bass this year come in that was making similar buzzing as well as tuning instability.  The string that wouldn’t stay tuned, the collar to the tuner was cracked along the threads and when I noticed that collar was loose and tried to tighten it the collar failed. Necessitating a replacement.  Not saying the issue is that, but it’s something I had not come across before the collar was chattering when the string would vibrate.    Just something uncommon to check and eliminate as a source. 

None of the images had any photogragimmickery done aside from simple cropping. They were all taken inside under the whitest light I have in the house (Kitchen). 
 

The baked piece I am going to leave out and displayed but kept from actual sunlight as much as possible. After a period of time I will take three more images to show any changes to the color. Health, or Projectguitardotcom longevity willing. 
 

Here is the piece on a wall shelf where you can compare it to other colors

Here are findings from taking a piece of cocobolo from a piece I have and putting it in the oven at 350 degrees for an hour (was actually 1 hr, 17 minutes. As I had to take the dog out and he took forever). 
 

i got the idea of color modification from watching a video by The Snekker Show channel on YouTube from his experimentation using the same technique to purple heart. I did not use as many pieces  or variables as he did. I used 350 degrees at an hour as that seemed to give him his best results for that wood. 
 

I just used a single piece because cocobolo is super expensive here in San Antonio. The main piece I have was $12.81 +8.25% sales tax. The piece dimensions were 3” x .25” x 40”. That’s $60.00/bdft so making several pieces to experiment with was a no go.  
 

The idea posited by The Snekker Show is that some of these Highly colored exotic woods with a high oil content is that it is not light or air that is the basis for the color, but rather the oil itself. The application of heat allows the oil in the wood to spread fairly evenly throughout the piece and locks into the wood fibers vastly slowing the normal darkening to the typical browns we are used to seeing after a period of time.  My intrigue on this was heightened when the show displayed a few examples of heat modified Purple Heart that still had intense purple coloration after sitting in the guys shop for periods between 5-12 years. I am planning a project using bloodwood in the near future and am interested in using this technique to maintain the vibrant reds that species is known for.  My piece of bloodwood I have is not at my residence and I have no scrap to experiment with, but I had the piece of cocobolo, which is another colored wood with a high oil content, so that became my test object.  Apples to oranges to bananas I know, but hey all three are desired for their colors. All three have a relatively high oil content. All three are New World species of tree. All three are from areas closer to each other geographically than any other popular exotic woods used in making guitars.  Examples Wenge, Bubinga, and Paduak, Walnut, Ash, and Red Oak. Using any of these in the experiment would truly be using dissimilar lumber to observe. So this experiment is on to something and comparisons can actually be made using an educated hunch. So bear with me.  
 

The first image is my “control”. It’s the rest of the stick of cocobolo I own. The second set of three photos is the piece prior to baking. The next set of three are post oven. And the final two are after the modified piece is sanded from 320 grit sandpaper through 4000 grit abrasive mesh then had two light applications of Howard’s Feed and Wax with a final hand buff. 

I am about to start my V project and I have decided that I am going to use the piece of Bloodwood I have for the body wings, as the oxidized board has darkened to a color similar to the old late 60s cherry color Gibson used, except a little leaning a touch browner, but not brown enough to warrant any color addition before just using a clear in the finish after grain filling and top coat. 
 

Which brings me to my questions.  
1.) Have any of you used heat stabilization when using bloodwood to set the color?  
I ask because I have recently seen a guy on YouTube use heat to stabilize and bring out excellent color to Purple Heart. The Snekker Show is the channel, here is one of the videos. 

Seems putting the wood in a 350 degree oven for an hour works best for the best color as well as stabilizing the color throughout the piece. He shows several pieces of wood that were heat modified and unused yet in the area of 8-10 years old which have not darkened yet. I plan on seeing if my local supply store has any bloodwood pieces I can pick up to experiment on before I cut into mine.  Just for fun, I am going to take a piece of cocobolo I have to heat modify it today and see what happens.  I’ll report back with findings. 
 

2.) I plan on finishing my V with a gloss coat, so to assist in UV protection, what would be a good base coat you guys would suggest to use?  I have heard that using an evaporative base coat is the way to go ( de waxed shellac or Spar Urethane have been suggested). I have also read about General Finishes Arm-R Seal varnish is another excellent varnish to use as a base coat to use to help with UV protection. I’m leaning towards this route. Now a topcoat from here is a little perplexing in what can be used with what.  I was looking at a 2K type rattle can clear gloss over the base coat. Can these two type finishes be used with each other?  Without problems?  A topcoat of at least 2mil once done allows for excellent UV protection if using modern automobile polyurethane as per reading data sheets of several 2K products (as well as calling a couple auto body shops and simply asking). That’s 2mil after all sanding.  
 

3.) please tell me about the Armor-All hack and explain the schedule for it?  I know you use the original type product and it’s applied pre grain fill or post grain fill, it is applied pre base coat. That’s as far as I have been able to figure out.  The Armo-All just adds another layer of UV protection. 
 

thank you greatly in advance for any suggestions and/or answers to my questions. In advance.  If any of you have any of these oily/waxy exotic colored woods and have a few pieces you can experiment with. See if heat modification as shown in the above video helps or hinders the color.  Please don’t use anything ultra expensive. Was thinking more along the lines of using more of the commonly used fancy woods.  Maybe we can create a type of database for the group tha will help alleviate shying away from using interesting wood because of what it would look like years in the future.  

This is just throwing an idea out there. You’re more experienced than I am. But could the frets themselves be rattling in their slots?  I know that you know how to seat your frets, but have you tried using a little CA applied to where you think might be a questionable fret just to rule this out?  
 

My thought process here is that you are using a product that you’ve used many times before and your work flow is consistent and correct, but the product you are using has a slight change in the manufacturing where the nibs on the tang are slightly undersized than you are used to so when you install the fret the anomaly doesn’t show up until the neck is under tension. The frets aren’t loose enough to detect by tactile investigation except when playing.  
 

just throwing it out there.  Outside the norm issues are usually those that happen when I’m trying to be a perfectionist on stuff I work on. Whether it be guitars to working on cars.  So outside the box  ideas are usually where I start thinking first.  Which results in my taking longer on projects at times. I’ll automatically think worst case scenario and work from there. 

On 8/27/2020 at 11:11 AM, Prostheta said:

Don't bother. Buy some Tru-Oil. After all, you're stateside anyway and you'd be buying a less consistent product for more money whilst paying through the ass for shipping and import. If you want it to be more penetrative, add 5-10% nathptha to the oil for the initial coats.

I know the shipping would make it overly expensive compared to what is available here, my thought were more to just try their product once.  I have enough oil finished guitars as it is.  Two is enough full oil and the remaining 8 having oiled necks.  Oil is pretty, but I’m the proverbial bull in a China shop and the guitar and bass I oil finished now both have more body dings than I care for and the bass is always on a wall hanger if not being played which is rare.  
 

I am currently collecting the gear to set up a lacquer hvlp rig.   

Wow a hand plane thread that isn’t ancient.  I love hand planes.  My prize possession of my planes is my Bailey No 6 which I restored about 16 years ago. I use it to fine tune boards after going through my jointer.  It isn’t truly necessary and I have the jointer fairly dialed in, but who doesn’t like making 3’ long wood ribbons that are see through?  I wish I could get my small planes as sharp as the No6.  Their irons are inferior steel and you can actually feel the difference by touch of the irons themselves.  

I haven’t gotten to where I need to buy in rolls yet, but I use one of those file binders the accordion type.  
 

like this

AmazonBasics Expanding Organizer File Folder, Letter Size - Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B25NN64/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabt1_dlC_GTNQFb072ZD93

Man I wish the photos were still up. Does anyone have them archived?

Akira Takasaki. Japan’s response to Eddie VanHalen. 
 

Not sure if you ever sorted this out or are still looking, if so, I have a BC Rich branded double locking tremolo I would be willing to part with. Drop me a pm and we can discuss. 

How did this turn out for you Macarel31?  Interested to hear your final results.  I’m glad I caught this thread as I was about to pull the trigger on some of Crimson’s oils. 

On 1/11/2018 at 8:47 AM, Prostheta said:

I've had a Flying V on my bucket list for many many years, and this thread is Google's #2 result. 

Just hunting for body thickness....1-5/16" sounds nice and light to me. At least, that 3/8" is a good slimming. Collecting the materials for a 70s V....

On 1/11/2018 at 8:47 AM, Prostheta said:

I've had a Flying V on my bucket list for many many years, and this thread is Google's #2 result. 

Just hunting for body thickness....1-5/16" sounds nice and light to me. At least, that 3/8" is a good slimming. Collecting the materials for a 70s V....

Not sure if you guys have already built your V’s but if you’re looking for measurements of the modern V (which is patterned from a 83, which was patterned off a ‘74, patterned off KK Downing’s  ‘67 if we are to listen to Downing as well as some magazine articles). I have a 2001 Gothic model I would be happy to take any/every measurement y’all want and post them here.  Just shoot me a pm here.  I’m planning on building a second as I want one with a Floyd and no router is going to touch mine.  I also know a guy here locally who owns a ‘58 and I will ask him the headstock length for sexybEast and sbandyk. If/when he responds I’ll pass the info along. Not promising anything because he is kind of a dick. 
 

Prostheta, I also have that Takamine Explorer you mentioned years ago, or was that the Aria Pro version?  I can’t remember.  

The Floyd Rise special has a decent base plate but the saddles are are from lesser quality metal and have had long term stability problems for strings apparently over time digging grooves into the front side of the blocks,  Another issue is the pivot pin in the saddle can wallow out causing tuning stability after heavy bar use as when the system returns to the zero point, the saddles could have shifted slightly (this seem far fetched to me and probably just rumor) 

I haven’t experienced this personally, as I only use either originals or Schaller made Floyd Roses(not schaller branded). I am just parroting what has been said about them by people I know personally and trust what they say.   Their suggestion to me is if I pick one up to upgrade it to original Floyd model parts ASAP. FWIW ymmv. 

Follow these guys’ advice. I would also pick up Dan Erlewine’s The Guitar Players Repair Guide as it has a good setup schedule that starts at basic cleaning and proceeds through final check.  If there are repairs necessary along the way, the book has fairly detailed chapters dealing with the typical specific issues one finds when setting up a guitar. 
i know the book discusses fret repairs, but I think it is only to help but minor repairs where pulling and replacing one or two frets at most is needed. Any further coverage of this topic I think he left for his video tape on regretting. 
 

I mention this book mainly because it was pretty much my bible when I first started doing my own repairs.  I still reference it from time to time. I also don’t hold it as gospel. I have found stuff that works better for me in other places and other people but it is a great reference that covers a detailed set up.