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Posts posted by argytar
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On 2/7/2021 at 5:44 PM, mistermikev said:
nothing to contribute, but just wanted to say it's an interesting thread for sure. experiments for me often end with a lot of effort and no result... but lack of experimentation in a build is boring. this is def not boring!! rock on.
Exactly! Experimenting with new techniques makes this build even more exciting for me!!
Thank you!
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On 2/7/2021 at 11:24 AM, Bizman62 said:
The existence and size of the glue lumps makes me think of too little pressure. As you know from top joints, the glue line should be invisible. That much glue would be very much visible.
You had a bottom mold, but no top mold. You'd need both, and some foam in between to fix any unmatching spots.
Thank you so much! I have bought some insulation hard foam and found a door press on a nearby woodsmith. He said we can give it a go in the near future. This time I will use scraps just to be sure!
I started refining the mold. I think having it in steps may have caused problems too! With three lams it didn t show , but when I put one maple lam in there, it assumed the shape of the steps so maybe some of the void was caused by this inacuracy.
In the meantime, I made a scarf - joined Korina neck blank for the project and started making a compton-esque 7075 aluminum bridge for extra spanky tone!
I will need to drill carefully, file- shape and polish!
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Utter and complete failure...
I don t know if it was the humidity ...
the non- consistent vacuum pressure...
or the mix ratio...
but after 24 hours the veneers came off just by pulling with my hand...
Not the entirety of them, that gives me some hope.
I obviously did something wrong...
maybe I should use titebond next time.
I will of course keep trying!
Thoughts? Anyone done this with urea glue? Your laminating experience will be highly appreciated!
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Hello again!
I have been planning this for a while now, so let us update the situation.
After some research and with the kind help of McKay guitars , I started looking for urea glue or kaskamite. It was a little difficult but I got me some.
After that I found out that I needed a bleeder or breather cloth which I also found at a local store that sells vacuum application stuff for people that repair boats with epoxy resins and do vacuum infusion.
So the time for the first test has come.
I mixed the UF glue and applied it to scrap, then used vacuum to press it.
I will let you know how that went in a couple of days!
They say that you need temperatures over 70 degrees for these glues to work. Fingers crossed!
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2 hours ago, Bizman62 said:
I might use regular Titebond but that's just me. If you're going to make sort of a laminated bowl you'd need a two piece mould. Moistening the veneers should prevent them from cracking, heat might help as well. Wood can be surprisingly flexible when it's properly steamed and it will stabilize when it's cooled down.
By the way, if you build a mould using sheets of plastic foam (the type used for packaging or even the yoga mat type) on either side will even the pressure, thus preventing bubbles between the veneers.
Wow, that info is gold!
I have made a mold out of maple and not exactly a cap but a rim rather. I will use the vacuum bag and then press the rim at the edges. The yoga mat idea is really nice! I will see into that!
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So naturally I have another question!
A friend of mine tried titebond to glue the lams but they kind of cracked as if they were wet. I read Gibson used pressure heat and some kind of industrial glue on their 335s.
Any ideas on what non-hydrophylic (hydrophobic?) I could use?
Thank you!!!
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2 hours ago, Bizman62 said:
Goes to show that what's elementary for one can be new info to another hobbyist woodworker! And thinking that I was afraid to post all that in fear for underrating your knowledge...
No problem , I asked because I didn t know!I only made solid body guitars up to this year, never had anything to do with laminates and I am just learning things as I go.
As far as I knew I would stack three laminated on one another without changing the direction of the grain. That would be interesting! ... not!
Again thanks for your help!
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1 hour ago, Bizman62 said:
That looks more like a piece of lathed veneer than cut. As it's in the middle it doesn't matter much. Plywood is usually made of rotary cut veneers and it's tough as can be. As long as you have the best looking veneer on top all is good.
If you've ever wondered how the thin veneers are manufactured, here's how: https://gharpedia.com/blog/manufacturing-process-of-wood-veneer/
A fellow builder once brought rolls of 0.55 x 120 mm birch veneers to the workshop. I've used them cross grained to prevent control cavity covers from warping and splitting and also as accenting stripes. The seam is invisible when done carefully - which I know you can do! It's unbelievable how little material you need to counteract warping or in your case stabilizing a molded shape. Back in the day I visited a kitchen cabinet factory where they made laminated worktops out of chipboard. Now the laminate is watertight but the chipboard isn't which means that the bottom side could swell and warp with moisture. So to counteract that they laminate a single sheet of perforated paper on the bottom side, the holes being about 5 mm in diameter so it's rather a mesh than a sheet! And that works.
Wow! Great info! Thanks!
My lumber provider told me that they are rotary cut- which is ok I guess. They will go in the middle, so no connection will show. (However I try for it to be as perfect as possible, I treat it as if I was glueing up a soundboard , which it technically is!).
I will ty to plane it thinner then to reach my goal of 5.5mm thickness.
Thank you so much for your info, big help! I appreciate it!!
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So, I tried my top mold today with the vacuum bag, without the glue...
Wow ! Seems to work quite nicely!! I will put and press a rim around to make sure the pressure is right and I will try to use hot hide glue... we shall see!!
I tried to find some cross-grain pieces but I couldn t find big ones in my inventory. I will use two piece lams for the middle, I hope that will be ok, if I glue them tightly!
How is that middle part’s grain? Am I moving on correctly, or do I have it all wrong?
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18 hours ago, Bizman62 said:
Basically yes. If you're making a laminated top or bottom, line the outermost (visible) layer with the neck just as you would do with a one piece top. That serves both the aesthetics and strength against string pull.
I've heard about boatmaking where the laminates can be glued at steeper angles for added directional flexibility. Several angles are also possible. If you want to bend the veneers to a shallow bowl a three dimensional laminate might work. A two dimensional would be strong enough for most uses, though.
No, I think bending the pieces on a maple carved top will count as a three dimentional, right?
So that is what I will do and hope for the best!!
I will put two radiator cover buckers in there to make it more oddball- esque.
A 6-in-line headstock and maybe some over the top switching options like out-of-phase and on-on-on switches with series-single-parallel options.
I also have a Duesnberg Les Trem that I would like to fit behind the bridge maybe using a sound post.
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2 hours ago, Bizman62 said:
Cross laminated veneers is basically plywood and the method is used for adding strength. Take one veneer and you can bend it one way until it cracks neatly along the grain. The other way it won't bend as easily and it will crack into splinters. Two cross laminated veneers will be equally stiff when bent into either direction and won't crack that easy. Three ply cross laminated will bend more easily to one direction than to the other and again won't crack as easily as a piece of solid wood of the same thickness. -Was that the information you needed or did I just tell something that "everyone" knows?
Yes, that was very informative!!! Thanks a mil!! So , to get things even more clear, should I put the middle piece of wood with the grain perpendicularly to the grain of the previous lam?
Thanks again!!
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So hi, I was thinking of making a hollow guitar for the first time.
Looking to approximate the likes of the guitars Auerbach of the black keys uses.
Something of a cross between a Harmony and a Custom Kraft maybe.
I started by building a mold, bending the sides and making the kerf.
Then I bought some maple lams.
They are approxiamtely 2mm in thickness maybe a little thinner.
I made a carved top out of maple. And an mdf bracket. I will use a vacuum bag to merge the lams.
So I have a couple of questions...
Is it imperative that I use cross grain? Can I just kinda Combine two or three lams? Should use three lams or two are ok?
Thanks for any input!
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Oh my God, this is a TOUGH one!!!!!
Cannot decide yet!!
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Omg! What a beatiful build!!! Thanks for sharing!!!
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Wow! What a nail- biter that was!
I can’t believe it!
Thank you guys so much! It was a long time dream to make “guitar of the month”!
Congrats to everyone for their tasty creations!
I will continue crafting with even more dedication to it!
Thank you, again!
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On 8/21/2020 at 3:30 PM, 10pizza said:
Just reading this thread now, very cool project and great video! Sounds great!
Hey thanks so much!
Love your blue guitar too!! Very original!
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On 8/17/2020 at 7:00 PM, ScottR said:
Very nice, sounds great!
SR
Thank you so much!!
On 8/17/2020 at 7:41 PM, RonMay said:hey thank you very much!!
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Hey there!
This is The Corona Bird!
You can read all about the build process here:
specs:1-piece obeche/ayouz body and neck construction
Bigsby B5 vibrato
black reflector knobs
Black plastic pickguard with Silver Onion logo
Black plastic truss rod cover encrypted as “The Corona bird”
Traditional curved single acting truss rod with maple cap
Switchcraft 3-way toggle switch
Switchcraft long jack
Belden/ vintage pushback guitar wire
Emerson Pro 500k long split shaft pots
Orange drop .022μF capacitors
Seymour Duncan SM-2b bridge minihum
Nick Silver Blue Moonlight alnico 2 neck p90 “Elias Zaikos” model.
GMI - Halon guitars 1060 steel bridge with self-lubricating brass saddles
GMI/ Halonsteel bridge postsGMI/ Halon heavy knurled brass thumbwheels
Hand - selected by tap tone Indian Rosewood fretboard
white plastic fretboard bindingblack plastic side dot markers
Pearl dot markers 7mm
Dunlop aluminum strap holders
24.625” scale
12” radius
Bone nut
Steinberger tuners (finally here)
Nitro finish “hammerite green metallic”
light relicPyramid .10-.38 pure Nickel strings
And here is a video to showcase the tones!
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Ok!
Here is the final chapter of this thread.
A clip of sounds!
Enjoy! Hope you like the tones!!
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1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:
That looks superb @argytar The whole project concept - single piece of wood - is inspired and the result is impressive.
Thank you so much! I appreciate it!
I am making a small video to showcase the tones I can get from this fun axe!
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Ok, so this summer is a little difficult as you all know, and I had a lot of things to do in my medical practice plus a new project that is on its way.
Anyways, I came up with a Silver Onion guitars logo. That is my Greek name and surname translated to English - roughly.
So I dug with the dremel diamond straight bit and sprayed some silver nitro on the grooves.
That gave me the finished result of this guitar!
Enjoy!
Final sound clip coming soon!
The specs of this guitar can be summed-up below:
1-piece obeche/ayouz body and neck construction
Bigsby B5 vibrato
black reflector knobs
Black plastic pickguard with Silver Onion logo
Black plastic truss rod cover encrypted as “The Corona bird”
Traditional curved single acting truss rod with maple cap
Switchcraft 3-way toggle switch
Switchcraft long jack
Belden/ vintage pushback guitar wire
Emerson Pro 500k long split shaft pots
Orange drop .022μF capacitors
Seymour Duncan SM-2b bridge minihum
Nick Silver Blue Moonlight alnico 2 neck p90 “Elias Zaikos” model.
GMI - Halon guitars 1060 steel bridge with self-lubricating brass saddles
GMI/ Halonsteel bridge postsGMI/ Halon heavy knurled brass thumbwheels
Hand - selected by tap tone Indian Rosewood fretboard
white plastic fretboard bindingblack plastic side dot markers
Pearl dot markers 7mm
Dunlop aluminum strap holders
24.625” scale
12” radius
Bone nut
Steinberger tuners (finally here)
Nitro finish “hammerite green metallic”
light relicPyramid .10-.38 pure Nickel strings!!!
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On 6/19/2020 at 9:14 PM, Bizman62 said:
I didn't realize the type of the tuners until now. They really add a twist to the design! Is there any gear or are they just like violin tuners, doing exactly what your fingers tell them to?
Love them so far! Very sleek and accurate/ sensitive.
No gears, they just screw down and they stay put.
Very intuitive design.
...and now I got a spare gold set....
gotta think carefully, if I am going to start a new project!
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Hollowbody Oddball guitar build
in In Progress and Finished Work
Posted
Wow, thanks so much for the info!
The process I want to follow is to make a laminated top, sorry for the confusion.
I want to use 1.5mm thick lams to achieve a cross - grained laminated top. The problem is that the temperatures in my “workshop” at this time of year range between 12-16 degrees centigrade. That said, I most definately agree that there was a temperature failure.
I found a door press and I might try laminating again with titebond this time. I hope I will be more successful! I will leave urea glue to use in the summer, maybe that would be better.
Thank you all so much for contributing!!