A New Kind Of Guitar Tremolo

[sample tremolo]

Hello to everyone, my name is James. I am here to learn about guitar building and also to show and answer questions about a new kind of guitar tremolo that I developed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rwPm7jOrdpw

[Brian]

Interesting..........

[demonx]

Is it pretty much the same internal design as a Kahler?

[Juntunen Guitars]

Sounds interesting. Are you going to make an available to buy or test out?

[sample tremolo]

Is it pretty much the same internal design as a Kahler?

No, completely different. It operates off of two different pivot points. On diving it rolls off of upper bearings, on raising string tension it rolls off of lower pivot bearings. You can see I had some strat type saddles on it, that is changed, just using that in testing. There is a cam internally that allows raising string tension by arm rotation. Here is facebook link that has a couple pictures

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sample-Tremolo/225421100810232

[sample tremolo]

Sounds interesting. Are you going to make an available to buy or test out?

If/when I get say at least 5 or so people that want one then I will make a batch. There are a lot of parts to this so it takes a lot of time to make, especially since I am working out of my garage lol. Here in Tulsa Ok where I live I'll let anyone who wants to try it out come over to my house. I have not come up with a game plan for other areas.

[Juntunen Guitars]

Sounds interesting. Are you going to make an available to buy or test out?

If/when I get say at least 5 or so people that want one then I will make a batch. There are a lot of parts to this so it takes a lot of time to make, especially since I am working out of my garage lol. Here in Tulsa Ok where I live I'll let anyone who wants to try it out come over to my house. I have not come up with a game plan for other areas.

How would you be distributing them? I take it would would be selling a batch of 5 or so?

[sample tremolo]

Sounds interesting. Are you going to make an available to buy or test out?

If/when I get say at least 5 or so people that want one then I will make a batch. There are a lot of parts to this so it takes a lot of time to make, especially since I am working out of my garage lol. Here in Tulsa Ok where I live I'll let anyone who wants to try it out come over to my house. I have not come up with a game plan for other areas.

How would you be distributing them? I take it would would be selling a batch of 5 or so?

I had thought of doing some type of distributorship type of deal. Grant someone a certain area to be "factory authorized" to work on and install these, work up some kind of deal that makes everyone happy.

[Juntunen Guitars]

I had thought of doing some type of distributorship type of deal. Grant someone a certain area to be "factory authorized" to work on and install these, work up some kind of deal that makes everyone happy.

seems like an idea. I wouldn't mind trying one of these in one of my guitars. I like trying new things with building.

[sample tremolo]

seems like an idea. I wouldn't mind trying one of these in one of my guitars. I like trying new things with building.

I emailed you a picture of an design idea I'm working on, any ideas for guitar to put this in appreciated. This is going to be a tough sell this new tremolo. Nobody is going to want to do heavy modifying to their mid-upper range guitar and there is no sense putting it in a cheap guitar.

[zyonsdream]

I have few thoughts about this and in no way am I trying to be disrespectful but these are a few roadblocks you will encounter with this type of tremolo.

You are asking a guitarist to completely rethink and relearn the way they use a tremolo. All tremolos throughout history have used an upward/downward motion for raising/lowering the pitch of the strings. You are asking the guitarist to rotate the bar across the string path to raise pitch. This could seriously get in the way of their ability to pick strings while they raise pitch. On a plus side, I could see one adopters using some variation of sweep picking with this type of tremolo, which could provide a few neat sounds.

The tremolo requires serious modification to the body. On a custom built guitar, this is not an issue. However, it will be an issue for many people who would want one installed in their current axe. It's easy to install a Floyd Rose on a fulcrum style guitar or one with a fixed bridge but it's not very easy to install a Kahler in a Floyd equipped guitar... this tremolo looks to be along the lines of a Floyd to kahler swap.

I love innovation and a custom guitar forum is a good place to shop your ideas but you might also serve yourself by having serious tremolo guitar players try out your product. Plucking a few strings in a youtube video, admitting you are not a guitarist, will not get many guitarists interested in your product. Jim Marshall built the worlds best amps and never played guitar but he is one of the rare ones that pulled it off. Guitar builders will plop anything into a piece of wood if the price is right and the idea intrigues them (look at Gibson's robot guitars for proof of this) even if guitarists ultimately think the idea is worthless.

[sample tremolo]

I have few thoughts about this and in no way am I trying to be disrespectful but these are a few roadblocks you will encounter with this type of tremolo.

You are asking a guitarist to completely rethink and relearn the way they use a tremolo. All tremolos throughout history have used an upward/downward motion for raising/lowering the pitch of the strings. You are asking the guitarist to rotate the bar across the string path to raise pitch. This could seriously get in the way of their ability to pick strings while they raise pitch. On a plus side, I could see one adopters using some variation of sweep picking with this type of tremolo, which could provide a few neat sounds.

The tremolo requires serious modification to the body. On a custom built guitar, this is not an issue. However, it will be an issue for many people who would want one installed in their current axe. It's easy to install a Floyd Rose on a fulcrum style guitar or one with a fixed bridge but it's not very easy to install a Kahler in a Floyd equipped guitar... this tremolo looks to be along the lines of a Floyd to kahler swap.

I love innovation and a custom guitar forum is a good place to shop your ideas but you might also serve yourself by having serious tremolo guitar players try out your product. Plucking a few strings in a youtube video, admitting you are not a guitarist, will not get many guitarists interested in your product. Jim Marshall built the worlds best amps and never played guitar but he is one of the rare ones that pulled it off. Guitar builders will plop anything into a piece of wood if the price is right and the idea intrigues them (look at Gibson's robot guitars for proof of this) even if guitarists ultimately think the idea is worthless.

All good points and no offence at all taken. First let me explain the arm rotation, that came as a matter of necessity. A year ago I discovered with the first prototype that it took a crazy amount of effort to pull up on the arm. I was trying to raise as many notes as possible within the limits of what strings are capable of. In order to retain the pull up method I would have had to do a gear reduction (or cam) and the arm would have had to move out approaching 90 degrees. I had to have a certain range of motion in order to spread the effort over. So until a few months ago I was scratching my head wondering what to do. Then I had the light bulb moment and thought lets rotate this. I predict you will see other tremolo makers follow this in the future, one reason being is that it is a natural feeling movement. I plan in the future to develop an optional clockwise rotation for diving.

My original thinking on developing a new type of tremolo was that I would make no comprises on function so I didn't bother with making it installation friendly. Honestly with this design it would be tough to make it smaller and it definitively would be a compromise. These are the things I was not going to compromise on:

1: Tuning stability, changing string gauges or drop/raise tuning has no effect on it.

2: No string lowering when going up on string tension, made for optimal string action setup.

3: Raise multiple notes, strings being the only limitation.

4: Idiot proof once it's installed, easy to use change strings, doesn't need tweaking

I have had a few guitarist play with it, the first reaction is wow this is cool being able to raise notes like this. I am going to get a pro to make a demo video at some point, got to write the riffs for this thing first lol. So far the most interest expressed has been from the country music players, who knows what genre will find it most useful. The tone is different, very distinct. I am sure that will bring out some love/hate for it.

[masterblastor]

You are asking a guitarist to completely rethink and relearn the way they use a tremolo. All tremolos throughout history have used an upward/downward motion for raising/lowering the pitch of the strings. You are asking the guitarist to rotate the bar across the string path to raise pitch. This could seriously get in the way of their ability to pick strings while they raise pitch. On a plus side, I could see one adopters using some variation of sweep picking with this type of tremolo, which could provide a few neat sounds.

I partially agree. My problem with the design is with the trem arm. With a floyd a pull up is a simple as pivoing your wrist and putting pressure on the trem with either your palm or arm. This is how you can get around pullups without interrupting your picking pattern by grabbing a trem arm. In this design the trem arm is dictating your picking position, not the other way around. In order to get serious action, the trem arm would put your hand completley out of position.

Honestly, I would cut that trem arm down to about 3-4 inches in length, drop it 1/4 inch towards the bridge, and put some sort of hook or anchor on the end of it so you can keep your pick over the strings and hook the trem arm with your little or ring finger. Actually, now that I think of it....that would be freaking awesome. If I understand the mechanics correctly, you could dive by applying pressure to the trem and pull up simultaneously without loosing your pick position.

[sample tremolo]

Honestly, I would cut that trem arm down to about 3-4 inches in length, drop it 1/4 inch towards the bridge, and put some sort of hook or anchor on the end of it so you can keep your pick over the strings and hook the trem arm with your little or ring finger. Actually, now that I think of it....that would be freaking awesome. If I understand the mechanics correctly, you could dive by applying pressure to the trem and pull up simultaneously without loosing your pick position.

You can pull up on the arm with your pinky at about 3" out on the arm so you could pick and operate it at same time. This design is actually quite customizeable as far as bridge plate setup, arm design and cam profile. It doesn't have to be one size fits all.

Edited May 21, 2012 by sample tremolo

[masterblastor]

You can pull up on the arm with your pinky at about 3" out on the arm so you could pick and operate it at same time. This design is actually quite customizeable as far as bridge plate setup, arm design and cam profile. It doesn't have to be one size fits all.

Totally get that. That is why people use their wrist to pull up on floyds. The trem arm is in the way. Personally, I remove the trem arm from my gits and move the bridge itself, either with my palm/wrist for pullups or my ring finger for dives. If you can solve that problem, you've built something you could sell that is more versatile than a floyd or kahler from a players perspective. Maybe offer a second style trem arm with the package?

Edited May 21, 2012 by masterblastor

[sample tremolo]

Totally get that. That is why people use their wrist to pull up on floyds. The trem arm is in the way. Personally, I remove the trem arm from my gits and move the bridge itself, either with my palm/wrist for pullups or my ring finger for dives. If you can solve that problem, you've built something you could sell that is more versatile than a floyd or kahler from a players perspective. Maybe offer a second style trem arm with the package?

Thanks for that perspective, you have given me something to think about. This arm I have now is simply 1/4" rod welded to a 5mm socket kinda bent at a 90 degree angel until I could figure out where to go with it.

[sample tremolo]

Totally get that. That is why people use their wrist to pull up on floyds. The trem arm is in the way. Personally, I remove the trem arm from my gits and move the bridge itself, either with my palm/wrist for pullups or my ring finger for dives. If you can solve that problem, you've built something you could sell that is more versatile than a floyd or kahler from a players perspective. Maybe offer a second style trem arm with the package?

Thanks for that perspective, you have given me something to think about. This arm I have now is simply 1/4" rod welded to a 5mm socket kinda bent at a 90 degree angel until I could figure out where to go with it.