theodoropoulos Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 I want to achive a very satin /matt finish in a cocobolo neck...What is the best solution for this??naturally or chemically?? The wood is oily and have never worked with this for finishing,so it must be very hard to be finished... So should i use an oily mixture or go on with poly ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 For satin on an oily wood I would stay natural with just oil and wax. Cocobolo is so oily you might not even need this however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theodoropoulos Posted May 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I think this way , Prostheta!! i have True oil,Linseed Oil ,and Tung oil.And from waxes i have Carnaba....i need the magical recipe to combine them ,and not just to throw them over ... But my big question is :is oil enough for a neck throught time to protect it from all bad factors??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Generally Cocobolo is oily enough to care for itself. Some workers clear it however I prefer the feel of a wood rather than a finish any day. Your call either way. The most care Cocobolo needs is the same as a Rosewood fingerboard. Occasional cleaning and mild conditioning if it looks or feels dry. A little oil goes a long way as always. I wouldn't use a polymerised oil (one that cures to a film like Tung oil or Tru-oil). Just a simple one like a little boiled Linseed, Almond oil, etc. Wipe on, wipe off and buff with 0000 steel wool. Generally Cocobolo can be polished to a mirror shine without adding anything through the virtue of its own natural oil content. I would add that "lemon" oil is not a good idea since it is a cleaner rather than a conditioner. This one always ends up being mentioned whenever "care for it like a Rosewood fingerboard" is written :-D The reason I mention wax is if you want to care for a natural wood instrument using the same care methodology as a Warwick. I won't go too far into this one as I am experimenting with blending waxes, oils and solvents myself to come up with my own sweet smelling paste wax cheaply. Warwick's own is pretty good if you want a fire-and-forget product for a raw wood instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theodoropoulos Posted May 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 thank you so much my friend for your advice!!!!very precious!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 If you're worried about oils just rub the neck with acetone first, it will get a good amount of the oils off the surface and a little into the wood so the finish will bond better. I saw a few acoustics done that way and it worked out great for them. Just remember to keep heat off the neck. One of those acoustics I mentioned had the sun shining on it through a window and it was enough to cause all the oils to bubble out and make the finish look like it had scales. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theodoropoulos Posted May 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 really???????????i did not know it! to be honest i will try to keep the wood..raw and not chemical treatment... but if i oil it ...i must repeat the same procedure in how much time?? if i put tung oil and carnauba wax for example?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 really???????????i did not know it! to be honest i will try to keep the wood..raw and not chemical treatment... but if i oil it ...i must repeat the same procedure in how much time?? if i put tung oil and carnauba wax for example?? I don't know if I would keep the cocobolo raw, I would definitely put a finish on it. Raw wood feels nice but it will soak in our hands oils over time and soften. Cocobolo might take longer because of the oils but I really don't know because of how oily it is. I'd imagine you may run into adhesion problems with any finish you use because of the oils but you never know until you test it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 Cocobolo will be fine. Your hands are far less problematic with Rosewoods as long as they are kept clean and not left to dry out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 Prostheta is right in that cocobolo will be fine unfinished, just like the other rosewoods. And just like other rosewoods, the oils in it will eventually darken the wood, turning it a dark brown. HOWEVER....... If you want to keep it looking great with all of the brilliant colors and graining that cocobolo is known for, you need to have a finish on it. Coco is one of the most oily woods around. In many cases, the oils darken, even turning black, ruining the appearance of the wood. Unless they are sealed in, they WILL come back to the surface and screw up anything that is applied, be it other rubbed-in oils, wax, or some type of finish. The oils are so aggressive that they prevent most finishes from curing, leaving them a gummy mess. The only way to make sure this doesn't happen is to seal the oils in there. The ONLY thing that works 100% of the time is shellac. As soon after working/sanding the wood as possible, bathe it in acetone. When that has dried, soak it in shellac. You are likely to need multiple coats, thus building up a barrier finish similar to lacquer and polyurethane, though much less durable. If you want a satiny look feel, buff the shellac with steel wool after leveling it. This will five you the satin/matte finish you wanted AND make sure the wood stays beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 Couldn't you seal with Shellac and then spray nitro or a urethane over it to give it a harder top coat? That's what I've always been told to do with shellac unless you want a full shellac finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Yes, you most certainly can do that. That I'm aware of, this is what most folks will do if they want a thick barrier finish. Shellac is unique among film/barrier finishes in that it has no adhesion issues with other finishes. IE: it will "stick" to everything, and everything "sticks" to it. PERSONAL VOODOO: Unless you plan on gigging with it constantly, I feel that the liklihood of wearing through the finish on the neck is fairly low. I personally don't have an issue in bilding up a thick shellac finish over a coco neck and being done with it. I'm doing that on an all coco Strat neck/fretboard I'm working on. Thinking about it for a second, I'd be more worried about the f/b than the neck because of the additional friction & abrasion of the strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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