82DeanZ Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 (edited) Howdy, I'm getting ready to tung oil a mahogany body and was wondering if I should grain fill first. My inclination is not to. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Best Regards, Mike. Edited November 11, 2004 by 82DeanZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dugz Ink Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 In a word: NO. Search this forum for the numerous threads (and rants) concerning tung oil. D~s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren wilson Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 No, it's not necessary. All you might want to do is spray a light sealer coat of lacquer before oiling it. This will just help give the wood more lasting protection from extreme shifts in humidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dugz Ink Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Here we go again... "The Chinese used tung oil to seal boats. It doesn't need sealers." "Do you use pure Chinese tung oil? No. You use stuff with finish in it." "Yeah, well finish AND tung oil is a double-good sealer, you ditz." "Your mother was the ditz, you son-of-a-ditz." ... or something like that. D~s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Well, it just depends on what kind of 'look' you want. If you want your finish mirror smooth, then it's either pore fill or 35 coats of tung oil before your pores are filled. If you don't care about the pores being filled, then there's no need to fill them. What look are you looking for with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82DeanZ Posted November 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 In a word: NO. Search this forum for the numerous threads (and rants) concerning tung oil. D~s O.K., I'll play. Here is the first search I did regarding my question of grain filling mahogany before using tung oil (search words were "tung oil mahogany"): http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...ng+oil+mahogany As you can see, not very productive. The next obvious search was better (search words "tung oil"): http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...ghlite=tung+oil I went through as many as I could stand to and didn't find an answer to my specific question. I'm not saying that the answer isn't there, I'm simply saying that it would be like finding a needle in a hay stack. I did, however, find many posts of yours on the subject of tung oil and can see that you have very strong opinions regarding tung oil. In fact, I found one post which seems to contradict your answer to my question as you yourself say "it depends" to this poster: http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...185&hl=tung+oil In this thread on page two, the question of tung oil and grain filling mahogany is asked, but never answered: http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...opic=7769&st=15 My purpose in posting wasn't to start another debate about the merits of tung oil or whether the tung oil you buy at Home Depot is really tung oil - I could care less. It was a simple question. No more, no less. Don't take all this personally. It's just one of my pet peeves when a person replys to a post with "do a search" (I realize in your case you added the illustrative sentence "in a word: NO", so you're exempt in this case). Granted, a lot of times the original poster could very well have easily found the answer to their question by doing a search. I just feel it's a bit elitist and condesending to simply reply "do a search." Here's what I do when I read a post like this. I either take the time to post a constructive answer, I do a quick search for them and post the link or I don't reply at all. What I never do is post "do a search." Phew....O.K. (steps off soap box), feel free to have the last word. Like I said, this is just a pet peeve of mine. I really hope you don't take it personally. You're a very helpful poster most of the time and I respect your opinions and I look forward to your advice and posts in the future. Best Regards, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82DeanZ Posted November 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 No, it's not necessary. All you might want to do is spray a light sealer coat of lacquer before oiling it. This will just help give the wood more lasting protection from extreme shifts in humidity. Thanks Darren. What do you think they do on the JS6? You ever see one of those in person? Well, it just depends on what kind of 'look' you want. If you want your finish mirror smooth, then it's either pore fill or 35 coats of tung oil before your pores are filled. If you don't care about the pores being filled, then there's no need to fill them. What look are you looking for with this? Hey Drak, I'm asking the question with regards to my JS6 project: http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=11418 In my first post for that thread, I give a link to the Ibanez JS6 that I'm modelling my project after. I know Ibanez used an oil-based finish, but I'm not sure exactly how they did it. My guess is still that they didn't use any kind of base coat or filler. I was just wondering if there was any kind of conventional wisdom on the subject since this will be the first time I've used tung oil on mahogany. Hmmm..... Best Regards, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 I've never done it, but I know you can make a 'slurry' up, using pumice stone or rottonstone or something like that that you use with the first coat of oil that will grind up some of the mahogony fibers and fill pores as you apply the first coat, maybe that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren wilson Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 DeanZ: The sealer coat is optional. I've got a tung-oiled walnut guitar here that's been very stable over 15 years, and it wasn't sealed. I just re-apply the tung oil every few years to re-condition the wood, and it's got a beautiful, natural satiny feel. I like the feel of the wood, and not a thick glossy sheen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dugz Ink Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 It's just one of my pet peeves when a person replys to a post with "do a search" And, as a moderator on another forum (as well as an active contributor in this forum) it's one of my pet peeves when people ask the same question that keeps getting asked over and over and over... especially when a simple search WIll turn up the answer... like you proved here. I did, however, find many posts of yours on the subject of tung oil and can see that you have very strong opinions regarding tung oil. In fact, I found one post which seems to contradict your answer to my question as you yourself say "it depends" to this poster: http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...185&hl=tung+oil I didn't feel like typing out the entire answer... again. By the way... now that you've searched and read, do you know the answer? D~s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dugz Ink Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 I just had to come back and add an extra note: A really BIG pet peeve of mine is people who come to a forum like this and say "just answer my questions"... then get pissed off just because somebody told them to click on the Search button. How much could that possibly hurt you? Were you beaten with a Search button when you were growing up? Or are you just to ________ lazy to even click on a virtual-button? You have a problem. Get over it or die from it. D~s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Dammmmmmn shorty! A little overcaffeinated today are we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 (edited) The only time I've used tung oil was on my oak toilet seat. Great stuff! But if you can't find an answer here, then I suggest you do a test on some of your scrap mahogany. Then you can contribute to the common knowledge, ie. yay or nay for grain filling before tung oil. I'm curious to know if it will even stick and if it does, will it stick evenly. Tung oil is a stain and its common knowledge that oil based stains don't penetrate "poreless", closed surfaces. They just lie on top and can be easily scratched off. So to ease your pain the function of a stain is to penetrate, color and enhance the grain, yes, even in Spain, but not when it rains! However, dyes will penetrate closed surfaces. And I do believe that if someone answers "yes" or "no" to your question you deserve to know the reason why in the same sentence. Thats just part of the learning process. Edited November 11, 2004 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dugz Ink Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Dammmmmmn shorty! A little overcaffeinated today are we? No, I just can't believe he went on such a rant because I told him to do a search. Sometimes I wonder why I spend so many hours a day trying to help strangers. Of course, I know why I do it; it's because other strangers have helped me. Some of those strangers went on to be great friends, but others just gave me advice before drifting off. So I try to pass along the favor. But some people don't want help; they just want you to give the answers to the latest test. And... it's "slim"... not "shorty"... not that being short would be a bad thing... D~s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Short people got no reason to live - Randy Newman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82DeanZ Posted November 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 By the way... now that you've searched and read, do you know the answer? D~s In a word: NO Nowhere in any of the searches I presented did the answer to my specific question appear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dugz Ink Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Then let me quote a thread that you linked to earlier: I start applying Tung Oil after I've worked my way down to 120 grit, and it is also a grain filler. I will apply the oil 3-7 times, letting it soak in each time, before walking away and letting it dry. Then I sand, and apply Tung Oil, and sand, and apply Tung Oil, until I have a surface that is as smooth as glass. I apply one or two thin coats to add gloss to the project, then wax it. Please note the bold type. That was your answer. But you missed it because you were on a rant. D~s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82DeanZ Posted November 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 That person was working with Ash, not Mahogany. I specifically asked about using tung oil on Mahogany. YOU missed that because now YOU are on a rant . If you are implying that tung oil will work as a grain filler on mahogany as well then just say so. Look...I'm sorry you're taking this so personally. It wasn't my intention to get into a pissing contest with you. You gave me a curt and less than helpful reply to my post and I responded in a way you didn't like. If you are going to present that kind of attitude in your posting then you have to expect a backlash every now and then. At least in my "rant" I didn't get personal and resort to implied profanity ("Were you beaten with a Search button when you were growing up? Or are you just to ________ lazy to even click on a virtual-button?" and "You have a problem. Get over it or die from it"). I was doing my best to be diplomatic and present a reasoned argument in my defense of having asked my simple question. I even tried to say some nice things about you in the end. This argument seems pretty unproductive to me so this time I really am giving you the last word. Do your worst. Sincere Regards, Mike. P.S. Thanks to everyone who posted advice. Much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dugz Ink Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 That person was working with Ash, not Mahogany. I specifically asked about using tung oil on Mahogany. Your right... that's a completely different material... like concrete and plastic... so any comments about using tung oil on Ash should be completely ignored because they don't offer any information that will ever be useful to you. You are so right... I am just a hot-head loser who deserves to be beaten for telling yet another person to use the search button. I should be tortured for responding to your long terse diatribe. You are a perfect god and I am not worthy. D~s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren wilson Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 I'm curious to know if it will even stick and if it does, will it stick evenly. Tung oil is a stain and its common knowledge that oil based stains don't penetrate "poreless", closed surfaces. They just lie on top and can be easily scratched off. Huh? Tung oil isn't a stain. It's an oil, and it will penetrate the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Okay kids, I think we can cool it down in here. One of you thinks the answers are in previous posts, while the other believes that his question was specific enough to his situation that it warranted a new post. Big deal, it's just bandwidth. Not to mention you've now wasted ten times as much than if we'd have just answered him. It's my belief that the Ibanez finishes have always been straight oil to wood. But I have no idea what brand they're using or how many coats, etc. So if they're using a tung oil + solvent finish, but you're using a tung oil + varnish or poly finish it will be different. Tung oil will stick to a previously lacquered or polyurethaned finish, provided that its a real thin washcoat. So what you have is a deeply penetrated, micro thin coating. But straight tung oil does pretty much the same thing on it's own. One reason to use a washcoat first is that it does a better job of bringing out the sparkle in the wood grain as you move the light source. ("chattoyance" or something like that described by Drak recently? Maybe that's just a figured wood term) Any attempt to fill the grains or build up a flat surface before applying tung oil is asking for poor adhesion and improper drying. But if you're using a tung oil + poly finish then it will stick anyway, because it has that finish infused into it. But then you're so far from the JS6 feel that you might as well shoot it with gloss and buff it. You'd be 90% of the way there already. In my opinion you're best suited with a tung oil finish that has something with it. Mahogany is so fuzzy and furry that straight tung oil can absorb and dry inconsistently, and you'll blow time rubbing out a lot of coats. I would try something like J.E. Moser's polymerized tung oil varnish. Just do two or three coats of the "sealer" or the low sheen. The difference between low/med/high is the solids content, and you don't want high solids if you're going for the open-grained look of the JS6. I'm sure tru-oil would be great too from what I hear. I haven't tried it. Straight tung oil (thinned of course, but I mean with no lacquer type additives etc.) would be fine and you'd probably like the results, I just think you'd save time and effort with a "finish". When you're done, be sure to apply some paste wax, like minwax finishing wax for that final glow and smoothness. The JS6 has that in the catalog photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dugz Ink Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Mahogany is so fuzzy and furry that straight tung oil can absorb and dry inconsistently, and you'll blow time rubbing out a lot of coats. I'm not arguing with you, just a making a point about differences fo opinions. Personally, I like spending the time putting 18 coats on something like Mahogany... and the first six go on in a row without any drying time in between... I just let it soak in as deep as it wants. And when it quits soaking it in, the grain really is filled, not just sealed. That's what I want from what I classify as a "wood finish"... as opposed to things that spray on like paint. But that's just me and my opinion... both of which can rub some people the wrong way. (sfsf) D~s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Huh? Tung oil isn't a stain. It's an oil, and it will penetrate the wood OK, its a matter of symantics, stain, oil, whatever. I did say it penetrates wood, but the question is...will it penetrate sealed wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdog Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 What a waste of bandwidth. ....Yeah, the search functions on most of these types of forums leave something lest to be desired. ....Experiment and test.....Maybe some knowledge will be gained along the way. I never expect to learn anything without hands on experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dugz Ink Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 What a waste of bandwidth. Yeah... you're right. And I made it worse when he called my reply "elitist". I'm sorry. But elists are the pros who sit at the Bluebird all night and run up a $70 bar tab instead of spending their evenings helping other people. If he had just said "I did a search, but I still need some answers" everything would have turned out differently. It's too bad; most people around here know that I LIKE to talk about using tung oil. Enough said. I don't need to burn up more drive space. D~s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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