Do You Think Refretting Would Be Worth It?

[JackyB]

My main acoustic guitar (a 35-year old Jullian acoustic. As far as I know the manufacturer stopped making guitars a long time ago) is quite difficult to play. I've been playing guitar for about two years now, so I'd like to think I have pretty moderate finger strength. Sometimes I seriously have to put all my effort into pushing the strings down to make a clear tone, especially on upper frets. Is this problem due to maybe worn down frets? Improperly set action? It's frustrating as hell to people like Ken Block and some other acoustic players breeze through notes around the 12th fret with beatiful vibrato. Hammer-ons and pull-offs are viritually not existent on anything past my 8th fret.

So my question is, would it be worth it to re-fret everything, or should I just wait and buy a better, new guitar?

[JackyB]

Holy crap, I don't know how this got posted three times. Any moderators or admins feel free to delete the other two. Sorry.

[bluespresence]

Without seeing the guitar it sounds like high action. What is the height of the strings at the 12th fret? Measure from the bottom of the string to the top of the fret and that will give a everyone here a good place to start so we can help.

[Brian]

Might want to shave the bridge bone while your at it if it is to high.....

[LukeR]

Out of curiosity- it IS a steel string Acoustic, isnt it? When I first started playing many, many years ago, my guitar teacher told me to take the classical strings off the gitar, and replace them with steel strings (it was actually a classical guitar, but had a steelstring bridge on it)

Suffice to say, after a few months, the problem you describe presented itself.

It is possible you have steel strings on a classical guitar?

Luke

[JackyB]

Out of curiosity- it IS a steel string Acoustic, isnt it? When I first started playing many, many years ago, my guitar teacher told me to take the classical strings off the gitar, and replace them with steel strings (it was actually a classical guitar, but had a steelstring bridge on it)

Suffice to say, after a few months, the problem you describe presented itself.

It is possible you have steel strings on a classical guitar?

Luke

I know for sure it isn't a classical guitar. The bridge/nut/headstock are all consistent with a steel-stringed guitar.

I measured the action at the 12th fret. It's approximately 4 to 4.5 mm from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string. Is this too high?

Edited December 21, 2004 by JackyB

[LukeR]

Hahaah, thats cool then

The action doesnt sound rediculously high; doesnt sound like its anthing majorly structualy wrong with the guitar from what you have described.

If thats the case, it seems that a good setup may be in order.

As Brian as said, the action should be lowered a bit.

Luke

[LGM Guitars]

Out of curiosity- it IS a steel string Acoustic, isnt it? When I first started playing many, many years ago, my guitar teacher told me to take the classical strings off the gitar, and replace them with steel strings (it was actually a classical guitar, but had a steelstring bridge on it)

Suffice to say, after a few months, the problem you describe presented itself.

It is possible you have steel strings on a classical guitar?

Luke

That is a HORRIBLE idea. And it sounds as though you paid the consequence. Your teacher needs a lesson in acoustic guitars . A nylon string guitar does NOT have bracing for steel strings. (how would you ever string a nylon string with a steel string bridge anyway, there are no ball ends on nylon strings with VERY few exceptions which sound awful) Also, a nylon string guitar typically has no truss rod, which means with the extra tension of the steel strings you'll bow the crap out of your neck.

Might want to shave the bridge bone while your at it if it is to high.....

That would be the saddle Brian , never heard of a bridge bone .

Chances are good if it's a 35 year old guitar and the problem has gotten progressivly worse the top has moved and or the neck has moved. You may not be able to lower the action by shaving down the saddle. You want your string break angle to really be no less than 28 degrees over the top of the saddle. To shallow of an angle and the strings will sound rattly and probably slide across the saddle, to much of an angle and they break very easily.

I've never heard of Julian guitars, but if they were a less expensive model (and could even be a more expensive guitar still but less likely) it's possible the bracing has popped loose on the top and the top is pulling up. It's possible the neck has pulled forward as well at the joint, do you see any finish cracks or anything on the heal of the neck?

If your action is 4 to 4.5mm at the 12th from the top of the fret that is ridiculously high, you should be able to easily acheive 1.2mm with no buzz on the high E. It really sounds like the top has pulled badly, and possibly the neck has moved and needs a reset.

There are so many things it COULD be, but frets are not likely to be one of them.

The problem now is that if the top is pulled and braces popped loose, it will probably be at least $100 to repair that (which is less than a refret, but may not bring the top back to dead flat depending on how the wood has reformed itself) and if it is a neck issue and you require a reset, that is expensive, probably about $350 to $400 assuming the guitar does not have a laquer finish on it and require refinishing after the reset.

At any rate, if you're unsure what the problem is, the best thing would be to take it to a good luthier and have it looked at, then you'll know where you stand.

Edit: there is no way you'll lower the action much with the saddle if it's 4 to 4.5mm already. Sounds to me for sure like a top and neck issue. Probably a bit of both

[JackyB]

LGM-

Thanks for pointing that out, I hadn't even considered it a possibility. I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're talking about, but here's what I see:

From the bridge to the tail, the face of the guitar almost looks figured. I'm not sure if the wood was warped due to moisture, or if the bridge somehow pulled the top off of the bracing from the tension of the strings or something... At the point where the bridge is glued to the top, the top is almost raised 2mm from "level." I guess that explains the crazy-high action.

At any rate, my dad bought this guitar in the early 70's for $30. It's served me well and has taken a lot of abuse, but I think it's time to retire her . It sucks I have all of these music-relate expenses all of a sudden. My Les Paul has needed repairs, I need a new acoustic, and I'm in dire need of a more powerful amp. Thanks for the help guys.

Edited December 22, 2004 by JackyB

[xebryusguitars]

great advice LGM, but isnt there such things as a bridge bone or also called the saddle but wouldnt it be this

Link

Dunno if I'm right at all, but just putting my 2 cents in.

[LGM Guitars]

On an acoustic, the wooden part is the bridge, the saddle is where the strings actually go over. Doesn't matter if it's bone, graphite, wood, brass or otherwise, I'm sure somewhere down the road somebody said "bridge bone" but I've never seen it, I've heard many confuse the saddle and bridge however.

JackyB

Yeah, definitely sounds like the top is pulled, tension and humidity/temperature all play a part in that sadly. The braces may not even be popped, they may have warped with the top. For $30 I'd say thank it for the years it's lived, make a clock out of it, and move on