jnewman Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 I actually just found this forum yesterday and spent all night reading through a lot of it - good stuff! Let's see, where to start. I've been playing guitar for six years and really love it, and for the last four I've been playing a Fender Texas Special Strat with ash body, one-piece maple neck, two single coils and a pearly gates. It's a great guitar, and it does ALMOST everything I want, but I play a lot of blues and I want a darker guitar I can put some humbuckers in and get that really warm, creamy, screaming sound that you can only get with a heavy-wood guitar (I hate to say this, but the LP sound as opposed to the strat sound, although I'm not terribly interested in trying to nail the LP sound). I'd been thinking about just buying a Gibson or getting a custom made by the folks over at shamray.net, but I've been into general DIY things for a pretty good while, most recently electronics, and stumbled across this forum while looking for DIY tube amps, and up popped a new idea - make my own! I've always been good at building things and taking things apart, and I've done a fair bit of electronics work (audio amplifiers and robot/remote controlled vehicles), a fair bit of woodworking of the table-and-cabinet variety, and even a little bit of metalworking, and I know my way around all the tools in a machine shop and can get access to one pretty easily, so I feel like this is something I can probably make happen. All that said, after reading through a lot of the posts here, I've gone and given myself delusions of grandeur . One of the biggest reasons I was looking at custom guitars is because I really wanted a neck-through design, so there's that. I was generally planning on mahogany neck/body with maple top and rosewood fretboard whether stock, custom, or DIY, but there are all kinds of things people do around here that've been giving me ideas. What's really starting to appeal to me now is getting rid of the maple top so you can actually see the wood the guitar is really made of and using mahogany (or, if I get really fancy, something similar tonally like koa) along with a bit of something a little brighter - I was thinking walnut, which is a wood that I've always thought is particularly beautiful. So at this point I'm looking at building a two-humbucker walnut neck-through mahogany (or koa)-wing guitar, or maybe even a walnut and mahogany (or koa) or walnut and wenge laminate-neck with mahogany (or koa) wings. And a fretboard from rosewood or maybe pau ferro (I don't want to deal with ebony and the expansion/contraction and the cracking, which I've seen in the past on guitars and on other wooden things). This seems pretty ambitious for a first project to someone who's never build a guitar, but at least there are a few positive tradeoffs - I don't have to make a perfect neck-pocket, just get a lot of wood perfectly flat (which I can do). I've really fallen in love with the Stratocaster body shape, so that's what I'd use, so I don't have to do any top-carving. I don't want to do anything but an oil-finish, so I don't have to deal with nitrocellulose or varnish or anything. On the other hand, there negative tradeoffs, too - if I make such a nice guitar out of such pretty woods, there's no way I'll let a pickguard cover half of it up, so I'll have to do basically the LP routing job, which seems harder than the strat routing (I wouldn't even be able to use a normal strat-style output jack - it'd have to be a side-plate). Basically, it'd be a labor of love - I'm pretty patient and knowing I'm building something near to my ideal guitar I'd make sure to do everything right, and I know enough about woodworking and tools to do that, although I'm sure it'll take me forever if/when I do it (it'll probably help that I have a friend with a two-story-garage metal-and-wood machine shop who's crazy enough to've build a mechanical clock from scratch, including the gears and screws, that I can get to help me if I need it and lend me tools if I need them). So that was pretty long-winded, but what do you guys think? Am I crazy? Should I try it? How do the wood combinations sound? I'd be using something close to PAFs, probably (having read about scale length tone changes) using an LP scale length, and it'd be a hardtail. I probably won't be able to do anything but planning and possibly parts-buying until this summer, because I'm currently in college to become a mechanical engineer, so I've got plenty of time to think about it . Anyway, that's all, thanks for reading, Jimmy Newman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 (edited) I really like the idea of where this is going! It seems like you have everything figured out; where exactly are the questions? Just one thing I'd like to point out before you embark on this journey: walnut is -not- bright! You can see in my avatar the solid black walnut bass I built last year; even with the maple neck, ebony fretboard, and EMG pickups I still find it to be ever so slightly lacking in highs. Don't get me wrong, walnut sounds great, but it's not a bright wood. For bright, stick with maple. That said, this guitar sounds gorgeous. Regarding the pickup routes, with templates and/or a jig of some sort, routing accurate holes isn't that hard. It just takes patience to get everything exactly right, and a careful touch with the router. Also, a strat shape would look cool, as long as you like the shape. Personally, I prefer a shape more like that of the Ibanez RG (Superstrat)-- sharper edges and cutaways-- but this is your guitar. Finally, have you considered using a regular strat jack, but on the back? It would yield good results, if you don't like the idea of a side jack. Sounds like you've got yourself a plan. Get started, take pictures, post them here, and most of all, Take your time!!! This isn't a race, and you'll keep kicking yourself if you mess up. Never say something is "good enough"--get it right. Good luck! Edited February 19, 2005 by skibum5545 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 The 1st thing and the most important is that you already got a game plan, but lie Skibum said, the walnut would not be the best idea for a bright sounding guitar. I could suggest you use alder as the body wood and top it with maple. I just finish a walnut back maple top guitar and if I know that the walnut was going to be soo deep sounding, (I think mine is deeper than mahogany) I would have looked for alder or hard maple back. Look more around the forum, you can find a lot of answers using the search function instead of waiting for some one to answer your questions. Good luck, and take your time, this is very important, measure twice cut once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 It may help you to know that --while you're agonizing over which wood to use; which paint, which routing etc. --THIS AIN'T GONNA BE YOUR ONLY BUILD!!! Yeah, you'll see...you'll be halfway through building this one, and you'll already start dreaming of the next... I started off innocently enough, just like you...well, I finished my first, and I already have three more lined up! And I think it's better that way --you can relax during your first build, hope for the best, learn what you need to learn, and put that experience into the next...I'm hoping by the time I finish my fourth guitar, I'll start getting good at it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted February 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 (edited) Just one thing I'd like to point out before you embark on this journey: walnut is -not- bright! You can see in my avatar the solid black walnut bass I built last year; even with the maple neck, ebony fretboard, and EMG pickups I still find it to be ever so slightly lacking in highs. Don't get me wrong, walnut sounds great, but it's not a bright wood. For bright, stick with maple. The 1st thing and the most important is that you already got a game plan, but lie Skibum said, the walnut would not be the best idea for a bright sounding guitar. I could suggest you use alder as the body wood and top it with maple. I just finish a walnut back maple top guitar and if I know that the walnut was going to be soo deep sounding, (I think mine is deeper than mahogany) I would have looked for alder or hard maple back. I know walnut's not a bright wood - I'm really NOT looking for a bright guitar, my strat has me pretty covered there, I think. From what I had read, though, I thought it would be relatively brighter than mahogany, and might help add a bit of highs in the neck/neck-through laminate that I would be missing from taking away the maple top - if walnut's really that similar to mahogany (maybe even deeper) maybe I'll just make it a walnut-wings, walnut and maple laminate neck-through - it'd be nice having a bit of light wood in for contrast, and I guess I could have maple on the outside tapering wider into the body so that there'd be a pretty thick stripe of it in the body. Finally, have you considered using a regular strat jack, but on the back? It would yield good results, if you don't like the idea of a side jack. That's a REALLY good idea! (And one I never would have come up with on my own.) It's definately a good option - I'm just going to have to look at how things turn out and what kind of parts I can get - and how I'm feeling the day I order them, heh. I really like the idea of where this is going! It seems like you have everything figured out; where exactly are the questions? Things like whether or not the walnut would add a bit of high end that'll be missing from taking away the maple, and if I should just make it walnut with some maple in the neck . I've never actually done this before, so there are bound to be some things I get wrong just thinking things through on paper. Oh, and also, if I ever get that far, what's a good PAF-ish pickup (blues and some 60's rock)? Thanks for the responses! Jimmy Newman Edited February 19, 2005 by jnewman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanKirk Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 ...if I ever get that far, what's a good PAF-ish pickup (blues and some 60's rock)?← I like these Dimarzio Virtual Vintage PAFs I got from Brian (owner of this site) at universaljems.com. I have the same interests as you as far as having single coil strats and one w/2 single coils and bridge humbucker. I play blues and rock (getting into heavier stuff lately though) and wanted to build myself a dual humbucker guitar. I decided to use a Hipshot Babygrand hardtail bridge, concentric pots so I don't have to cut many holes in the top and a superswitch so I can split the coils (especially the neck pup so I can get close to that single coil neck pup bluesy sound). The body is alder with a flame maple carve top that I really need to finish the last small bit of carve on with a bolt-on neck. I too am thinking about my next project being a neck through with walnut/maple/mahagony laminates as well as 3x3 tilted headstock. Looks like we've been inspired to build from somewhat similar ideas. Good luck on your project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Finally, have you considered using a regular strat jack, but on the back? It would yield good results, if you don't like the idea of a side jack. That's a REALLY good idea! (And one I never would have come up with on my own.) It's definately a good option - I'm just going to have to look at how things turn out and what kind of parts I can get - and how I'm feeling the day I order them, heh. Or if you want to be a bit creative you can do this http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/Maiden69/DSC01902.jpg (that's a walnut back by the way) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/Maiden69/DSC01768.jpg (this one is mahogany) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/Maiden69/DSC01696.jpg (this one is my favorite, nice smooth edges, got to love working with ash) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/Maiden69/DSC01127.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/Maiden69/DSC01128.jpg this is a side on a V guitar I seen the strat jack on the back, I think on Mosers guitars, if not wrong, but I rather have it on the wood, but the strat jack plate would be hell of a lot easier to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Walnut is definitely NOT brighter than mahogany. It won't add highs--if anything, it sucks them--majorly. Just so you don't have any misconceptions about your tone when you start on this. With maple in the neck-thru, it might sound really good. Primal (a member here) built a bass like that. You can see it here: http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=6050 It might be worth it to PM him and ask him about the tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 Jimmy, congratulations. You are way ahead of the game vs many folks who make their first post on this forum. You have thought about what you want and how to approach it. I guess it is that ME training and discipline. Trust me, you will get the support you need from many gifted folks on this forum (I'm not in that bunch - gifted that is) if you continue to do your homework and then ask as needed. Sharing successes and failures also goes a long way. Sorry I can't advise on your wood choice. There is at least one luthier who frequents this forum (Hyunsu) who works in walnut a lot and focuses on tone. Perhaps he can advise. Lastly, I agree with Idch. Only build your first if you are ready to build many more. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted February 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) I like these Dimarzio Virtual Vintage PAFs I got from Brian (owner of this site) at universaljems.com. I have the same interests as you as far as having single coil strats and one w/2 single coils and bridge humbucker. I play blues and rock (getting into heavier stuff lately though) and wanted to build myself a dual humbucker guitar. I decided to use a Hipshot Babygrand hardtail bridge, concentric pots so I don't have to cut many holes in the top and a superswitch so I can split the coils (especially the neck pup so I can get close to that single coil neck pup bluesy sound). The body is alder with a flame maple carve top that I really need to finish the last small bit of carve on with a bolt-on neck. blush.gif Sounds like a hot guitar! I too am thinking about my next project being a neck through with walnut/maple/mahagony laminates as well as 3x3 tilted headstock. Looks like we've been inspired to build from somewhat similar ideas. Good luck on your project! peace.gif Heh, nice! 3x3 is definately the way to go with laminated necks - I think it looks really silly to have a wildly asymmetrical headstock with those lines going up the middle. Good luck on yours, too! Or if you want to be a bit creative you can do this........ Now that's slick! I was up last night thinking about it, and I'd about decided on making pretty thin laminated maple panels for the back cavity cover and a side jack plate and maybe pup bezels (I think the contrast with the walnut it'd be mounted in would look really cool, especially with the maple in the neck), but your way may win me over - those are some pretty good looking guitars, I'm impressed. Walnut is definitely NOT brighter than mahogany. It won't add highs--if anything, it sucks them--majorly. Just so you don't have any misconceptions about your tone when you start on this. Well, I guess I'll just go ahead and try it, especially in light of: It may help you to know that --while you're agonizing over which wood to use; which paint, which routing etc. --THIS AIN'T GONNA BE YOUR ONLY BUILD!!! Lastly, I agree with Idch. Only build your first if you are ready to build many more. I'm still going to do my best to make this first one perfect, but I know you guys are right - I'm going to be coming up with new ideas as I build this one, and once I get it done there's no way I'll be able to keep myself from doing it again (and again... and again... heh ). So with that in mind, here's what I've decided on doing since it doesn't matter if it ends up being my perfect tone: It will have an LP scale length for the sound, but will otherwise be as close to exactly strat-sized as I can get it - I want it to play as close to my strat as possible. With the shorter scale length and full-size strat body, the bridge'd normally look too far forward, so I'm going to use a tune-o-matic and tailpiece to help counteract that. I'm going to route a small depression to put them in so that I don't have to have any neck-angle (staying as close to the strat feel as possible). It's going to have electronics just like an LP, two humbuckers and four pots (although I may steal VanKirk's idea and use two concentrics), and a not-gibson-huge 3x3 flat headstock that's mostly symmetrical (maybe something like the PRS headstocks or the Wolfgang headstocks). The neck-through'll be a maple | walnut | maple | walnut | maple laminate, shooting for between 1/2-2/3 of the neck being maple, with the maple extending an extra inch or two beyond the neck line into the body (I'll post a drawing later to explain what I mean), with walnut wings and a pau ferro fretboard. Like I said earlier, probably laminated maple rear cavity cover and side jack plate (although I may go with Maiden69's style), and the jury's still out on that or chrome pup bezels. I think I'll probably make maple knobs, too. I guess I'm being a little ambitious making my first guitar from straight up raw lumber, and not body-blanks or premade necks or anything, but I really want to've actually made it from scratch and raw lumber, so that's what I'm doing. Oh, by the way - I'm from Houston, too, johnsilver, although I'm in New England for school. How's the weather down there? It's been COLD up here for someone who's always lived in Texas . Do you know any good places in Houston to buy wood? I'm sure there are some, but I've never really gone out to try to buy nice wood, so I have no clue what they are. I'm really a bit leery of ordering wood on the internet, I want to be able to touch it before I decide to put it in a guitar. Anyrate, thanks for all the responses and advice, I really appreciate it! I'm getting itchy and don't want to wait till I get home in may to start (I'll have all the patience in the world once I get started and am actually building it so that I know I'm building it right, but it's going to be pretty rough waiting if I don't start 'til May), so I may have to see about getting into the woodshop here - aside from a bandsaw or jigsaw and a router, I'm mostly planning on doing everything by hand anyway as that's the way I'm most comfortable with and the way I think I'll be able to do the best job. Oh, and once I get started building, I'm going to post EVERYTHING I do, and make a thread on a start-to-finish laminated neck-through guitar with some extra touches (like the wood covers/plates and knobs if I decide to do them) from the standpoint of someone who's never built a guitar before - there are some things that people tend to just gloss over that are kind of important if you don't know about them beforehand (like me). I got a digital camera a few months ago, so I can take all the pictures in the world of the process. Thanks again for the comments, and I hope I can get things going before too much longer so I'll have something to give back to you guys and this forum, which is pretty amazing. Jimmy Newman EDIT: Forgot to mention - I'm going to oil the hell out of it for the finish . Not sure what oil yet though, I'll have to do some reading. Edited February 20, 2005 by jnewman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Here's a little drawing I made and then photographed of more or less what I want the guitar to end up looking like (please note that it's drawn without a fretboard on top so that you can see the neck structure): The dark areas are black walnut, the light areas are rock maple. The headstock drawn is just a very rough outline of sort of what I'd like to end up with. The body would have standardish strat contours, and I'll probably make the pickup selection done with a push-pull pot or something so that I don't have to add an extra switch anywhere. The center maple piece is square. The center walnut pieces are tapered so that their outside edges are parallel with the edge of the neck and continue in that taper into the body and headstock (so thickest at the rear straplock spot and thinnest at the end of the headstock). The outer maple pieces will be squared once the neck-through piece is glued together so that their outer edges are parallel to each other and the centerline of the guitar. Drawing it out actually helped me cement my ideas a lot - it really helped to see what relative thicknesses of things look like, placement of the knobs, shape of the headstock, etc. You can see plenty of places where the drawing is smeary with pencil from erasing lines and redrawing them a hair or three over. Jimmy Newman P.S. Before anyone gets too excited about my drawing skills, I cheated a lot and printed off a strat from the fender website and traced it, and used a ruler to draw almost everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 I guess I'm being a little ambitious making my first guitar from straight up raw lumber, and not body-blanks or premade necks or anything, but I really want to've actually made it from scratch and raw lumber, so that's what I'm doing. Oh, by the way - I'm from Houston, too, johnsilver, although I'm in New England for school. How's the weather down there? It's been COLD up here for someone who's always lived in Texas . Do you know any good places in Houston to buy wood? I'm sure there are some, but I've never really gone out to try to buy nice wood, so I have no clue what they are. I'm really a bit leery of ordering wood on the internet, I want to be able to touch it before I decide to put it in a guitar. ← Jimmy, weather in Houston has been hot. It was 80F last week although a more pleasant 60F right now. Where are you now? I'm in Kingwood. I don't think you are being overly ambitious given what you have said about your woodworking skills and your approach to researching and planning. I say go for it. I made my first from scratch - ruined one neck and had to start over but what the heck since it was just a piece of maple for a Tele neck. Second one came out great. Houston Hardwoods is a good source of wood here. It is located just off Hwy 290 on W. 34th. For your project, they will have all the hard maple and walnut you'll need. They sell it in varying thicknesses so you can build your laminates with thinner stock without much waste and also have thicker stock for your wings. They will also surface plane and edge joint for a reasonable milling fee. I've used them a lot. Prices are ok in my opinion. Anyway, good luck and post pics when you start construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoodall Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 I'll second that on Houston Hardwoods. I'm just on my first project, but I have been dealing with them for years on other things. I like being able to buy wood locally, where it's had a chance to acclimate itself to the local climate. Nothing like buying a board from Maine or New Hampshire where there is no humidity and unwrapping it here in Houston where it's always 75% and above and watching your wood spring right out of the box! Sounds like a good project going on here. Keep it up! Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Nothing like buying a board from Maine or New Hampshire where there is no humidity and unwrapping it here in Houston where it's always 75% and above and watching your wood spring right out of the box! Curtis ← Amen to that Curtis. I ordered some alder from LMI in the summer and one piece looked like a corkscrew when it arrived. That's where I honed my hand plane skills since I have no jointer or planer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted February 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 (edited) Where are you now? Connecticuit, actually. I found a place up here that both sells wood for and builds pretty high-quality hand-made furniture, and I went ahead and bought some walnut and maple from them as I'd like to get started here in the next couple weeks. Houston Hardwoods is a good source of wood here. It is located just off Hwy 290 on W. 34th. For your project, they will have all the hard maple and walnut you'll need. They sell it in varying thicknesses so you can build your laminates with thinner stock without much waste and also have thicker stock for your wings. They will also surface plane and edge joint for a reasonable milling fee. I've used them a lot. Prices are ok in my opinion. Anyway, good luck and post pics when you start construction. ← They were the ones at the top of my list from a search through the yellowpages last summer on an unrelated project, but I never actually got started on that one - I'll have to go have a look when I get home. The wood I bought is S2S (planed/thickness sanded on the wide sides), and is right at 1 3/4" thick... it's nice wood, but I bought enough for something between two and four guitars, depending on how wasteful I am (about 10 bd feet each of walnut and maple). I got pretty fair prices on it, I think. I've actually started thinking about using teak for the fretboard, as I think I can get a prettier piece more easily than pau ferro, and I feel like its oiliness would make it really nice to play on. Plus my dad used to have a boat with a little bit (although it was never taken care of the way it should've been) of teak trim, and it's really nice wood. I know it's hard to glue, but I'll come up with something... I hear gorilla glue works well with really oily woods? I guess I should probably move to a new thread in the "in progress" section of the forum soon - I'll probably be able to do the cutting/laminating of the neck pieces and cutting of the wings over the next week or two. Edited February 27, 2005 by jnewman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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