Whats The Compromise?

[Vultite]

I'm getting closer and closer to starting the build my guitar. I have read that necks are often 22 frets or less because the 24th fret is a great octave area for the pick up. With 24 frets you loose that placement, and what cost to sound? I gotta say, I want the 24 frets because I personally think its cool to have a two octave guitar. Do I use them often? Well no because I dont own a 24 fret guitar.

I know there are many guitars out there that have pickups placed next to the 24th fret. But is there a real sound gain from having it placed at the octave? It must be valued because you still the majority of guitars being 21/22 frets. So what is the compromise, if any with sound?

While I understand the issues of construction stability in the guitar, I'm more interested in the sound difference between the two options.

Edited March 9, 2005 by Vultite

[Devon Headen]

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...ickup+placement

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...ic=2297&hl=node

[mledbetter]

I think this is easy (those other posts are all arguing advantages of locating near harmonics, and other theoretical bs) As usual, it's all about your style and what sound you want.

To over simplify it, think of the difference between the 3rd and 5th position on a strat. middle pup vs the neck pup. If you like warm rhythm sounds, jazz sounds, etc.. go with 22. If you are a shredder, play a lot of solos and rarely switch off the bridge pup then go 24. If you're somewhere in between, i'd say stick with the 22. With a 24, you will never get the warm neck pup sound that you can with a 22. Knocks a huge chunk of your guitars versatility out of the picture.

Most every guitarist has a favorite "zone" for soling - unless you're one of those "i know every scale up and down the fretboard" freaks like I wish I could be some days My zone is all in the 7-15 fret area, so I would never have any use for a 24.

[Daniel Sorbera]

Even if it made it sound better having the pickup under the 24th harmonic it wouldent matter the second you fret a string. Then the harmonic changes places. How often do you bang on your guitar without freting any notes? There are soooo many stupid guitar myths that it makes me sick. It makes me feel like this guy

Edited March 9, 2005 by Godin SD

[nollock]

IMHO it's all nonsense. A vibrating string has a bunch of harmonics, plenty more than the first 10 are still audible. So a conservative example of 10 harmonics all with differant wavelengths, each one has an equal number of nodes to its harmonic number, so the fundamental has no nodes, the 1st harmonic has 1, the 2nd harmonic has 2, ect... By the time you get to the 10th harmonic, there is already a total of 55 nodes on the string, i guess around 35 individual nodes as some will be on the same spots as other nodes. So asuming a roughly even spread thats 1 for every 3/4 inch. Where ever you put the pick up and fret the string there will be a node over the pickup. And thats not even counting the fact that the magnet field of the pickup is probably an inch or two wide. Which anyway will counteract the effect of the nodes.

If you measured the string vibration at the exact point of one of these nodes you would indeed find that the harmonic the node belongs to is absent from the sound. But a pickup is not a single point, it is a wide field, and that node is going to move about depending one where you fret the string.

So there may well be people who swear that they have experienced the effect of these nodes but all I have ever seen is subjective opinion. They may well have experinced some differances from pickup placement, but that could be for a whole bunch of other reasons. The node placment theory doesn't stand up to even basic scrutiny, it has more holes than a Phlagarian Multiwhore from the planet Bonk.

just my 2c

chris

[Devon Headen]

I think it's pretty obvious to someone who's experimented. The farther you move the neck pickup towards the nut the warmer sound you will have. It's easier to hear on an acoustic guitar, but play something while picking near the bridge. Now play the same thing picking right over the end of the fretboard. It's warmer every time. I think the whole "harmonic location" theory is a bunch of bunk.

[skibum5545]

Here's a wild idea:

Mount a pickup near flush with the top of the guitar at the 24 fret position, and use a 24 fret neck with a 2 or 3 fret overhang. Essentially, the pickup lives under the fretboard.

The only problem I can forsee is weakening in the neck pocket. However, there are plenty of guitars out there with the pickup butted up against the neck pocket, so I can't see it being too huge an issue.

[Daniel Sorbera]

how would you get the pickup out should it fail? Well I guess if it was a bolt on you could unscrew the neck. But what about set necks?

[selmac]

depends, if you have pickguard type mounting jusst take it out when it dies, or rear rout almost all the way through the body then mount the pickup under a lip so when/if it dies you just have an extra cavity cover on the back to take off

[Devon Headen]

You'd definitely want a very thin fretboard if you tried that. I've thought about doing a very high fret instrument using that technique before, I just can't see doing it for an extra two frets.

[RGGR]

Here is interesting read on subject.

http://www.novaxguitars.com/Pages/Techarticle_frame.html

Edited March 10, 2005 by RGGR

[mledbetter]

Hey, I know.. stick the polepieces up through the fretboard then your fretboard is the top of the bobbin.. lol. That would sound really nice when the string touches the polepiece.. but only if the polepiece is on the harmonic node..

That's an interesting idea though, the pup under the fretboard. as long as it was powerful it would probably work.. or if it had some kind of active circuit to boost the signal to accomodate the weaker signal.

[ToneMonkey]

And with a bit of a fiddle, you could use the frets as long polepieces

[Southpa]

I prefer 24 fret guitars now that I've built one. The only real issue is that some minor things have to be modified. I made an SG pickguard from a template then realized that I would have to recut it to accomodate the extra 2 frets AND still conform with the body contours.

[skibum5545]

Well, wait-- why couldn't it have extra long polepieces, sticking into blind holes in the bottom of the fretboard? It'd get the poles much closer to the strings, and you couldn't tell a difference from the top!

Again, it'd only work for a bolt on, but if the neck pocket's tight enough, why wouldn't it work?