Mickguard Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 My router came with a small round metal plate that attaches to the bottom plate. Problem was, the manual didn't tell me what it was for! Turns out, it's a guide --there's a lip on it that can ride along the edge of the template...well, YOU probably knew this, so why didn't you tell me? Wish I had known this a couple of days ago, I had to compromise my design because I couldn't figure out any other way... I can't find one of those roller bearing bits that StewMac sells here, and the StewMac bit won't fit my router... so is this plate a viable alternative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Template bushings are good, but they don't offer the accuracy of a bearing guided bit. Templates must be made larger or smaller than the desired cavity, which can be tedious, and I have yet to find a router where the bushing is perfectly concentric to the cutter, so for critical work like neck pockets etc I wouldn't recommend using the template bushing. On the plus side, you can route to any depth, and take many passes with small height adjustments, whilst a bearing bit requires a deep first cut unless your template is very thick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyykko Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 I can't find one of those roller bearing bits that StewMac sells here, and the StewMac bit won't fit my router... ← Just keep on looking, bearing-guided router bits with metric shank do exist, they are just very difficult to find. I manged to find such bits only in one place in Finland. One alternative is to make the blade yourself, just buy a straight 16mm bit with 8mm shaft and a 8/16mm bearing (e.g. SKF 618/8). The bearing can be locked in place with a short piece of 8mm plastic pneumatic hose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Oh okay I don't feel so bad...it looks like even with this bushing, I would still have problems routing the curve I wanted. Yeah, I'll keep looking for the bearing bit (I don't think I'm going to make my own--that thing spins way too fast!) , there must be a place around here that carried them-- or maybe someone knows an online place in Europe? I need an 8mm shaft size. As for that deeper first cut --I find that I lose control of the router if I go too deep-- about an eight of inch is comfortable, more than that and I start losing control I managed to do my neck pocket by building fences for the router, but that doesn't work at all for tight curves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 idch, Did you say you have a Freud router or was someone else? Anyway, look here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...000034?v=glance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 (edited) The chuck in your router should be able to fit different sized collets. I think the usual size for your average router is for 1/4" shaft so you might have +/- 1/16" leeway. Have a look around for the right collet and you shouldn't have any problems. Edited March 14, 2005 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nollock Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 idch: As you're in France I assume ordering form the UK would be no problem? couple of uk retail sites: http://www.axminster.co.uk/category.asp?cat_id=207673 http://www.mackay.co.uk/acatalog/Routers__...ccessories.html couple of manufacturer sites: Mabey find out if what you're after is avaible from the big brands? http://www.trendmachinery.co.uk/profinder/ http://www.freud-tools.com/routerbits.html I think Southpa's advice is the best though. Try and find a 1/4 inch collet for your router. (Using 8mm router bits is going to narrow your options a hell of alot.) Axminster's techincal dept is very good in this respect, tell them what you want and they will usualy find it for you. I managed to get a replacment collet for my old Makita router, its been discontinued for around 12 years so I wasn't hopefull, but they found me one. Wasn't cheap but still a fraction of the cost of buying a new router. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Guys I beg to disagree. I do plenty of very accurate work with a 3 horse Elu plunge router and collets. I fabricate a lot of custom items using solid surface (Corion, Avonite,Etc) and that's how I cut out pretty much everything. With wood rough saw with a bandsaw and route with the collets. One of the advantages is that you never have a bearing pop off in the middle of a critical cut allowing the bit to sink in up to the nub on the end of the bit. That's one of my favorite feelings. Yeahhhhhhh. To calculate the offset that you need just set a compass to the witdth of the offset and trace around the edge of the edge of your drawing. Shrinks it just enough. The collet system is actually less of a headache to do internal cutouts like a pickup cavity. The difference in accuracy that you're looking at is less than the amount that that wood will move in the first two days of a weather change. Wood doesn't believe in hundred thousandth's of an inch. !/128's are just not necessary. Your kidding yourself if you think that you can work wood like you work metal. This may be heresy, but it is what I've come ot believe after a lot of beating on boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Guys I beg to disagree. I do plenty of very accurate work with a 3 horse Elu plunge router and collets. I fabricate a lot of custom items using solid surface (Corion, Avonite,Etc) and that's how I cut out pretty much everything. With wood rough saw with a bandsaw and route with the collets. One of the advantages is that you never have a bearing pop off in the middle of a critical cut allowing the bit to sink in up to the nub on the end of the bit. That's one of my favorite feelings. Yeahhhhhhh. To calculate the offset that you need just set a compass to the witdth of the offset and trace around the edge of the edge of your drawing. Shrinks it just enough. The collet system is actually less of a headache to do internal cutouts like a pickup cavity. The difference in accuracy that you're looking at is less than the amount that that wood will move in the first two days of a weather change. Wood doesn't believe in hundred thousandth's of an inch. !/128's are just not necessary. Your kidding yourself if you think that you can work wood like you work metal. This may be heresy, but it is what I've come ot believe after a lot of beating on boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Guys I beg to disagree. I do plenty of very accurate work with a 3 horse Elu plunge router and collets. I fabricate a lot of custom items using solid surface (Corion, Avonite,Etc) and that's how I cut out pretty much everything. With wood rough saw with a bandsaw and route with the collets. One of the advantages is that you never have a bearing pop off in the middle of a critical cut allowing the bit to sink in up to the nub on the end of the bit. That's one of my favorite feelings. Yeahhhhhhh. To calculate the offset that you need just set a compass to the witdth of the offset and trace around the edge of the edge of your drawing. Shrinks it just enough. The collet system is actually less of a headache to do internal cutouts like a pickup cavity. The difference in accuracy that you're looking at is less than the amount that that wood will move in the first two days of a weather change. Wood doesn't believe in hundred thousandth's of an inch. !/128's are just not necessary. Your kidding yourself if you think that you can work wood like you work metal. This may be heresy, but it is what I've come ot believe after a lot of beating on boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Guys I beg to disagree. ← I'm guessing you posted that three times for emphasis? Thanks for the compass tip-- I'm going to give the collet a go for a while, see how that goes. Guys, the problem with putting a different size bit in there is that the manual specifically says use ONLY 8 mm bits. I know that there are routers available that are adjustable for 6mm- 8 mm (one of those would let me use the Stewmac bit), but this one isn't. I'm already pretty leery of working with power tools, and this one spins really fast....don't feel like taking chances. As for ordering from the UK, it's usually even more expensive than here, plus their shipping prices are ridiculous too. For the money, I'd be better off getting a better router that'll fit the size bit I want. But I just found out there's a shop catering to professionals not too far away, I'm going to try to get there one of these days to see what they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 The three posts were because our firewall at work causes unreal problems. You can use any size shank that you can get a collet for. I use 1/4" , 1/2", 3/8" and 8mm in both Elu and Porter Cable routers. The 8mm bits are the ones that Leeigh sells for their dovetail jigs and I actually use a collet adapter. You get into trouble with speed wuith the big bits. Like to ones for raised panels. Stuff with a three inch diameter. This should be safe, and I wonder why your router says to not change shank sizes. What brand and model are you using? I use a lo tof European tools, like Elu and Lamello, and have no trouble finding bits and such. If you have any questions about using the collet, satety or otherwise, E-mail me. I'm not the world's best but I've been using them successfully for over twenty years and have already made most of the dumb mistakes that one can make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 If you have any questions about using the collet, satety or otherwise, E-mail me. I'm not the world's best but I've been using them successfully for over twenty years and have already made most of the dumb mistakes that one can make. ← Heck, in 20 years, maybe I might be able to do this without screwing up every step of the way. Maybe. What I don't get about working with the collet is this: My wife can print out plans using autocad for me. I can use those for making a template. But how do you translate the template--using the collet--to your body wood? Do you make an undersized template to accomodate for the extra width on the template? (I'm talking about the template for the whole body. ) For the neck pocket, I've been working with clamping down fences to follow my lines. So far that's working out okay--I've got a pocket here that's so tight, I can play tennis with the guitar with no screws... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Use the compass trick from my last post and undersize your template. Nothing is easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Use the compass trick from my last post and undersize your template. Nothing is easier. ← Okay, I'm going to give it a go (on scrap wood to start). Thanks for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borge Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 im in a similar predicament (cant get hold of template type bit) i read the thread and realised i had on of those "things" from what i red it seems u guys must use a bigger diameter bit than the template guide (hence the undersizing of the template) i have a plunge router with a dodgy clamp thing (the thing that holds it in the plunged down position) so if my clamp thing fails the bit is gunna spring up into the guide and do some damage so i think ill use a smaller bit and oversize the template also why not use a bit with same diameter as template guide so u dont haveto resize the template if this was posible im sure someone would have thought of it. so i have a feeling ive got the wrong idea on the whole concept does someone wanna post a pic please PLEEAAASE i dont wanna fork out bulk for a router bit with the bearing for no reason cheers fergus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 im in a similar predicament (cant get hold of template type bit) i read the thread and realised i had on of those "things" ← I'm not sure you got it right. The 'thing' is a metal ring plate that screws into the bottom plate of your router. The center of the ring has a lip pointing down--that forms an edge with the top plate. You ride that edge along your template. The reason you have to make your template a bit smaller is that there's a distance between the edge and the bit --even if you use a pretty large bit (obviously you don't want a bit that will chew the edge). Although I suppose it's possible to get a ring and bit that are matched so there's almost no distance...? The size of your template depends on the the distance between the bit and the ring's edge. Another issue with the ring though is that it's a couple millimeters thick --and I already have trouble getting through a 45 cm wood block as it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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