jer7440 Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 Sounds like a really nice setup Donald. Is this something you use for a business or is it just a hobby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 I use it for my business, we restore antique wooden station wagons, woodies, (Beach Boys). Out of this we have started taking on "engineered wood applications" to keep the machine busy. I've had a guitar repair sideline for many years and just decided to see if I could put the two together. Voila, the archtop project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvertonessuckbutigotone Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 I swear, my dad has that exact same AM FM tuner, and the EQ in his machine shop. Nice work, I'm not a big fan of the wood, but thats just my opinion. I like the machine too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 The wood was an experiment out of 2x4's so if I screwed up I wouldn't be out big bucks for real tonewood. I think the tuner is an old Pioneer and the eq is an old Marantz both circa 1976. They don't make 'em like they used to... Here is the beginning of the machine process, 2x4 blank, 2nd pass with the cutter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Roughed front at this point I was making a mold to do vacum formed laminates but it seemed to be coming along pretty well so I switched gears and decited to go for a real carved top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Looks excellent. I wish I could afford/justify such a machine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 toolpathed the inside surface, flipped the block, same machine process sanded and ready for the next step, figuting out the f holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Jammy, we still don't use the machine enough! I wasn't sure when we bought it but we just said screw it we'll find a way to make it work. dkw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Donald, good to see you here. I have seen your posts on mimf before too. Nice job working out the archop design on the CNC router. It looks like you are having a blast. I look forward to seeing how this turns out. How does is the tap tone so far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 The tap tone is "crisp"? There is a very nice ring and the soundboard and back are responsive to each other after gluing up the body. It has a much different sound than my washburn archtop, (plywood,) I guess it should... I'm looking forward to getting strings on it. Thanks, dkw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Beautiful work, CNC is fo unfair for us hand workers , but I like it!!! maybe one day they will be more affordable, like the price of a copy carver with out the PC, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 I would guess the cost of "hobby" cnc will come down. the real trick is finding and mastering the software to get the results you want. Here is a picture of the "toolpath" of the soundboard. This is the actual carving path the bit takes. The 3d model had to be drawn as an outline, extruded as a solid shape, (depth) and then surface deformed to create the "arch". The resulting skin is then selected, tool info is programmed, and toolpath is generated. (the red lines). The end result is what you see in the last couple of pictures. The machine takes all the credit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 F holes; wanted an old school look, the gretsch f hole is nice but I didn't like the tight tops and bottoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Grabbed the ends in the cad program and rolled them out a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 cutting on the cnc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 (edited) finished cuts. There's an extra step showing here, the ridge around the perimiter. I have to find the related pictures, I'll explain... Edited May 10, 2005 by donald k wilson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pibrocher Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 That is so awesome seeing that machine at work. This is the first post i've seen with such extensive CNC work. Looks great, i'm sure it takes alot of measuring and plotting to get everything dead-on accurate. Keep it coming. Any ideas on finish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Donald, What software are you using for your 3d work? What method did you use to create the "arch" of your arch top? I am currently using mastercam for my LP project ( see this thread my LP) I found the process of creating the carve to be quite cumbersome. I ended up having to create 8 or 10 individual surfaces to get and acceptable carve. I'm happy with the final result, but it took forever. I'd really like to find a faster way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 I am toying with some different finish ideas right now. The guitar has stayed pretty plain so far, I wanted to concentrate on the construction aspects and get one finished before I started the ornamental pieces. Probably some kind of amber finish maybe a mild burst. I'm thinking of an older "workhorse" look, something that's seen a few too many roadhouses... The 3d program I used for the arch in the top is turbocad v 10.5 pro. It has a surface deform function that allows plotting points with defined offsets and springing the surface to them. I haven't tried anything else, don't know if other programs have similar functions but it's really handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlr8 Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Damn, I soooo want a CNC. Nice work Donald Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Here's the other picture of the "ridge" around the edge. Archtops hace a slight recurve around the perimiter to allow the top and back to be more responsive. I used the surface deform function to create the second concave curve around the edge, a uniform 1/16" crossed my fingers and turned the machine on... Next time I would do this before cutting the f holes. If you look closely you can see a little irregularity on the right hole. After the hole was cut the wood released a little bit. A little extra sanding and scraping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 After the front and back are done... I need sides! I don't have a thickness sander, toyed with the idea of setting something up on the belt sander but made a sled for the thickness planer instead. I'm not sure this would work for figured wood but my sides are cherry and they planed fine, 1/8" touch sanded to 3/32". The sandbaper and butt block keep the wood from slipping around. (Anticipating using figured wood I have since made a jig for the belt sander.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 (edited) I also don't have a bender... I decided to try an experiment. I took my heat strip gun put it in a piece of 2" muffler pipe and turned it on. when it got hot I bent the piece of cherry plywood in the front like butter. I tried a piece of hardwood and not so successful. didn't get hot enough and broke. However... Edited May 12, 2005 by donald k wilson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 (edited) I figured capping the end would retain heat in the pipe. It did but blew heat back onto the gun, plastic housing, not good. I had an old hubcap center lying around about 2 1/2" dia, I hung that on the end of the pipe and problem solved. the heat travels thru the pipe, and returns back out over the pipe deflected by the cap center. Both sides of the pipe get heat, and the hot air blows over the wood as well. This is a piece of 1/8" curly maple wrapped into a 2" coil. I sprayed it with water occasionally to keep it from burning but thats it. basically bent dry. On to the sides!!! Edited May 12, 2005 by donald k wilson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted May 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 (edited) I cut the bending form out of three pieces of 3/4" ply on the cnc machine, 2 1/4" thick. This has several uses down the road. I use it as a guide in forming the sides, they are bent gradually on the heat pipe from one end to the other and checked for fit in the form as I work. once I am satisfied with the contour the sides are clamped in the form overnight and when cool are quite rigid. Edited May 13, 2005 by donald k wilson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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