Tone -- It's Not Always Really Real.

[GregP]

Neil Finn (crowded house, etc) uses a lot of wacky cheapo guitars in recording even though they barely stay in tune. They add sonic character to the mix that your standard Les Pauls and Strats just don't deliver. He doesn't use them live as they are so unreliable, but some of the sounds he gets down deep in the mix are terrific and unique.psw

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I LOVE Crowded House, and particularly Neil Finn. Perhaps because I've already heard the CH stuff so much, I actually prefer listening to his solo stuff. Saw The Finn Brothers in concert last summer, too. Great show. His mixes and approach to guitar are awesome, indeed.

Greg

[psw]

Anyway, nothing wrong with a nice looking guitar. And, you definitely want something that works for you, reliable tuning, action that facilitates your style, sustain or percussiveness. Just saying, you can find your tone, even in cheapo homemade jobbys if you take the care to set them up to suit the job.

tis all

psw

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OK....here's my story!

About 30 years ago I decided that I'd try and be the best I could be...I wanted no excuse with my guitar. I bought a secondhand Les Paul Custom (black), had it refretted and brassed up, coil taps, the usual '70's mods of the day. I still play it today and it has a lot of value to me...1000's of hours of practice and gigs from rock to jazz on it.

But for the last 5 years the old black beauty has been sitting in it's flight case while I've been kicking about with cheap strat copies. I've set up the action and trem to where I like it but otherwise the pickups are stock, etc. Sure I'd love a better set of PUp's. I once put a guitar together with a vintage strat pickup I was given (in my teens) and the "tone" was excellent. I'd like a wider neck, too.

The point of this story is perhaps that, when I changed over I found a lot more of "my" sound and personality coming out in my playing. I have to really struggle with the guitar, but it's given me something to work against and has forced out elements in my playing that would never have emerged with the silky smooth playing Paul.

But I do acknowledge though, that there's something really beautiful about a fine looking guitar...and you've got to admire a "great" playing instrument, and you do what to find something that plays "great" for you...but it's not always the key to finding your great "tone".

Also, a big part of me still holds onto my original thoughts...if only I had a XXX guitar, my tone would be better. I think there's a lot more to it and far more of the instrument's tone is controlled by the player's touch and how that interacts with the equipment.

psw

[lovekraft]

...A PRS will still sound like total crap through a crappy 10 watt practice amp...

Maybe, but they sound awesome thru a Marshall 15 or a Watkins Dominator!

[Jester700]

I have a hard time discussing tone when I can't even make up my mind what I LIKE. Too many times I've gone to bed really digging the tone I was getting that day only to wonder what I was thinking the next day. Too many people disagree with me as to what the coolest tones are, even within the most narrow music style. SO many times I've gone back to listen to well-respected albums that I adored as a teen, only to find that I thought my V-Amp sounded as good or better.

So. I've come around to not going for "ultimate tone" anymore, and just getting a good tone that fits the song and doesn't piss me off. It's different for guitar junkies who play instrumental stuff where the tone is the focus, but for average people listening to primarily vocal tunes, guitar tone is secondary anyway.

[mledbetter]

I agree that it's all about finding what fits you personally. I am a strat man. A strat has a tonal range that is just different. Liekwise a les paul has a tonal range that is equally different, and the majority of guitars out there either are rooted in one or the other. I play a lot of lead and I appreciate all the sounds you can coax out of a strat. I played a 335 copy for a while and while it sounded great as a 335, i felt it was somewhat limited in it's variety.. but that double PAF sound just isn't my style.

Someone said it up the page some.. i think it's a great idea to dump effects and just find your comfort zone with a simplet guitar/amp combination and then "enhance" it from there. Unless of course, like Jester mentioned.. if you're into Vai and stuff like that and are all about making experimental tones and completely custom sounds out of banks of rack equipment.

It's been said before, a good player with bad tone is more fun to listen to than a bad player with great tone. Focus on your skills, find a guitar that matches your style and personality, and you'll have your tone.

[thedoctor]

mled, I think I said "adjust your suck-level". I have been helping J B (The Gripper) Tiberi with his playing, cause he is REALLY, REALLY GOOD but he lives on tone-enhancement/degradation. I gave him a good-playing Yamaha accoustic to work his chops on and talked him into a Genz head that will run a true-clean channel. Then I shielded his Jackson and helped him put true-bypass in his pedal board. After he works on a sequence for a few days clean, he goes into his effects. He never sounded better or was more comfy with his playing before. I think I done good. You will hear from this guy cause he is KILLER! Just needs a little work on his chops.

[psw]

It's been said before, a good player with bad tone is more fun to listen to than a bad player with great tone.  Focus on your skills, find a guitar that matches your style and personality, and you'll have your tone.

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Yeah...and it may be that your style and personality will come out even more in some pawnshop prize that a custom shop PRS...or in my case, a LP Custom

Interesting discussion...lets throw this into the mix

The great thing about trying out new and different guitars, the more different sides of your playing emerges...neat isn't it!

Oh, and the more I try to sound like someone else by slaving over a recording and TAB, the more I have to suppress my own style and personality...or "tone"...to emulate others. Ever noticed that guys that are really good at that seem to have trouble finding their own sound, some even have trouble applying a learn't sound to other material! Anyone else noticed that?

[thedoctor]

You, of course, know the old-dog/new-trick saying. I almost always get a piece of TAB learned and change it so it fits the way I play. I tried some Heart and Fleetwood but I had a hard time making it sound "dead-on" to the recorded stuff so I just quit trying to make it sound like the original. Now I just play it my way. Frank S. would be so proud! TAB is a VERY good place to start.

[psw]

I almost always get a piece of TAB learned and change it so it fits the way I play.  Now I just play it my way. ...TAB is a VERY good place to start.

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Absolutely...I hope no one thought I was knocking it. Even if I can't even get close to playing it, there's something magical in just trying to place your fingers in the same places as the greats...to walk in their footsteps, as it were.

I was kind of suggesting that part of the hard part of doing it is that somehow you have to suppress your own sound (phrasing, etc) to get close. But perhaps you lose some of your own soul and don't really get to uptake that of the original artist, resulting in a lifeless facisimile. Do it to much, and you lose touch with the essence of your own sound.

I wonder though if this thread has strayed from the original question. That of "tone". Although technique and style, etc effect tone...sometimes it's inspired by it. It could be that a so called "crappy tone" inspired the playing that resulted in something great...just a thought!

pete