firebird1999us Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I've seen the orange ones on ebay -- what do they do and is there a noticable difference when you use different types? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 There's no empirical evidence that any non-polarized cap works, sounds or lasts any better in guitar wiring than any other - any ceramic or plastic film cap will work just fine. I'm not saying that you shouldn't use a high voltage SBC Orange Drop, or for that matter, a Hovland or an Auricap if you want to, I'm just saying that it is unlikely to make any audible difference. I personally prefer film caps, either AVX, Wima, Xicon or Panasonic, but I'm forced to admit that there's no logical reason for it. You really can't go wrong with any cap, so long as it's not an electrolytic or a tantalum - let your ears and your budget be your guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTexas Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I used a ceramic one from Radio Shack. Why not experiment, because caps are cheap. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 (edited) If I were to use a ceramic cap, I would use one rated for 1kV minimum (1000V). They have a better frequency response (more linear) than the low voltage ones, which are quite non-linear. For more on that, read this page: http://members.aol.com/sbench102/caps.html Edited August 1, 2005 by Paul Marossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerlinTheWizard Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Yeah well, even if the cap is not very linear, it might not matter much. Tone caps in guitars are mostly used to attenuate high frequencies. I doubt you can really tell the difference between two different types of caps. Actually, the rather large tolerances on most of them is probably accountable for the difference in tone, more so than the type of cap itself. Just my two cents. (Or eurocents, for that matter ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Paul, didn't Steve Bench run those tests at 70Vrms signal levels, to simulate coupling caps in tube amps? That's over 20 times the voltage that even the best active pickup using a 9 volt battery could possibly produce - do you think the curves remain the same even at the tiny current levels of a guitar's output? It'd be an interesting experiment, if somebody had the time and the equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 (edited) That's over 20 times the voltage that even the best active pickup using a 9 volt battery could possibly produce - do you think the curves remain the same even at the tiny current levels of a guitar's output? It'd be an interesting experiment, if somebody had the time and the equipment. Well, you have a point there LK. It's probably not really noticeable with passive pickups, but I personally would still use a 1kV cap. It would be an interesting experiment, though, to test those low voltage caps in a 9V circuit. Maybe that could dispell some possible myths floating around out there. Most of the guys at Aron's Stompbox Forum really hate ceramic caps, especially the low voltage ones - they claim that they have a poor tone compared to film caps. Most of those stompbox circuits are built 9V batteries, too. EDIT: It is also interesting to note that every guitar I have ever seen has film tone caps. There must be a reason for that, but maybe not for the reasons I would surmise... Edited August 1, 2005 by Paul Marossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Most of the guys at Aron's Stompbox Forum really hate ceramic caps, especially the low voltage ones - they claim that they have a poor tone compared to film caps. Guilty as charged! I use film caps for everything, and as I said earlier, I have no logical reason for doing so, other than a vague suspicion that they are somehow more "accurate". I guess we all have our blind spots,don't we? At least I don't insist on using expensive audiophile caps in distortion circuits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javacody Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 I love the caps discussion. It comes up every so often and is very entertaining. I agree, I think we all have our favorites and have no logical explanation as to why. Myself, I purchase NOS paper in oil caps for my guitar tone circuits. I never pay more than a $1 a piece, mind you. I'm sure I'd be just as happy with orange drops or the gibson reissue bumble bees, or the cheap ones from Radio Shack. However, I will say that I've seen many ceramic caps in guitars from factories. And I agree, it probably doesn't matter, but it makes me happy to use what I use. I will also say that at nine volts, I can hear a definite difference in caps. In my tubescreamer I did swap out the 1uF NP electros and the 0.22uF tants for film, and I think it made a very large difference. The tone was definitely less muffled. That is four caps replaced, which perhaps actually adds up to a noticable tone change. Would I have noticed anything if I had changed only one? Well, someone send me a tubescreamer (prefereably the 808 reissue) and I'll let you know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebird1999us Posted August 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Thanks for all the replies guys -- I'm going to take a trip down to radio shack then I guess! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Most of the guys at Aron's Stompbox Forum really hate ceramic caps, especially the low voltage ones - they claim that they have a poor tone compared to film caps. Guilty as charged! I use film caps for everything, and as I said earlier, I have no logical reason for doing so, other than a vague suspicion that they are somehow more "accurate". I guess we all have our blind spots,don't we? At least I don't insist on using expensive audiophile caps in distortion circuits. ← The real test would be to get a non-musician to do a blind A/B test. If they can hear it, then there must really be a change. Honestly, to me, most of the changes between different types of caps of the same value are so subtle that I am second guessing if I am really hearing anything at all... (OK, maybe not counting electrolytic caps) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerlinTheWizard Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 In my tubescreamer I did swap out the 1uF NP electros and the 0.22uF tants for film, and I think it made a very large difference. The tone was definitely less muffled. That is four caps replaced, which perhaps actually adds up to a noticable tone change. Electros and tants are a nightmare in audio electronics. The rule is, well, never ever use them in the signal path. They are good for decoupling power supplies, though. ;-) Honestly, their characteristics are awful: their actual equivalent circuit is pretty complex (I had read a very good article about this a few years ago) and contains inductive and resistive components. No need to say they are not linear in the least. But like I said, it's likely that the change you noticed was also due to the difference in actual values of the caps. Remember that tolerance on most such caps is often 20%. That can indeed make a big change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Remember that tolerance on most such caps is often 20%. That can indeed make a big change. Yeah, and in a small value cap, that can be quite a swing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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