chunkielad Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 After waiting a week for my laquer to set up, I'm bored ! I want to get on with the finish and not sit around any longer so... Which clear will go over a good 'car paint' base coat or a water based dye and give me a good, hard surface BUT can be sanded and polished in a few days/week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 After waiting a week for my laquer to set up, I'm bored ! I want to get on with the finish and not sit around any longer so... Which clear will go over a good 'car paint' base coat or a water based dye and give me a good, hard surface BUT can be sanded and polished in a few days/week? ← Dude, patience! Read the product descriptions, look at recoat time. You can generally shoot clears within a day of shooting color, the same day if you're using the same finish for colors and clears (I do..), but with pretty much any non-catalyzed finish, you'll have to wait 2 weeks to a month (and a month is generally better) before final rub out and polishing. Only stuff I know of that goes faster is catalyzed poly/2-pack car finishes, or polyesters (also catalyzed). I'm not using any though, because you really need a proper spray booth, ventilation, possibly full body protection to be completely safe with those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlGeeEater Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Yep, nothin really faster than 2 pack poly or polyester. If you are REALLY looking to be impaitent, then be willing to invest a load of money for a spray booth, compressor, gun, ventilation, ect. If this is a one time thing, wait it out with lacquer. Sucks doesnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunkielad Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 If you are REALLY looking to be impaitent, then be willing to invest a load of money for a spray booth, compressor, gun, ventilation, ect. I have a gun and compressor and have a supplier of low isocyanate 2 Pk car laquer which would set up within a week or so - BUT no where to spray the blasted stuff!! I'll have to do it outside in the garden but we get tons of floating dust round here as i live on a busy main road. Ho hum - the torture of doing your own work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Yep, nothin really faster than 2 pack poly or polyester. If you are REALLY looking to be impaitent, then be willing to invest a load of money for a spray booth, compressor, gun, ventilation, ect. If this is a one time thing, wait it out with lacquer. Sucks doesnt it? ← Why is this such a popular misconception. You can spray 2 part automotive outside. (this depends on local laws) But if you're going to color sand anyway you dont need a booth. Use a fast hardener and a fast reducer and you can get good results without bugs or anything in the finish. Protective gear is a must. Proper respirator and gloves and a suit is a good idea. But the main danger with eurethane finishes is not the paint itself ith the cleanup afterwards. Getting paint thinner, Lacquer thinner or reducer or any petrolium based liquid for that matter on your hands is BAD. It soaks right through your skin. Always wear gloves and a respirator when CLEANING UP and painting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlGeeEater Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 All it takes is one pissed of nieghbor with that stench or one dead cat/bird to get the EPA on your @ss. Sorry, I don't live in Canada. In America there's hardly any space to spray outside(over populated). It would be kinda funny to see your neighbor in a white suit, reposrator and gloves outside though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 All it takes is one pissed of nieghbor with that stench or one dead cat/bird to get the EPA on your @ss. Sorry, I don't live in Canada. In America there's hardly any space to spray outside(over populated). It would be kinda funny to see your neighbor in a white suit, reposrator and gloves outside though ← I can see the neighbor thing in a city but then again spraying with a gun is no different than spraying aerosol. The amount of material sprayed is the same. If you have a big cloud around you, you're probably spraying with too much air. You bring up a good point about spraying outside...overpsray. Take note of what is downwind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlGeeEater Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 All it takes is one pissed of nieghbor with that stench or one dead cat/bird to get the EPA on your @ss. Sorry, I don't live in Canada. In America there's hardly any space to spray outside(over populated). It would be kinda funny to see your neighbor in a white suit, reposrator and gloves outside though ← I can see the neighbor thing in a city but then again spraying with a gun is no different than spraying aerosol. The amount of material sprayed is the same. If you have a big cloud around you, you're probably spraying with too much air. You bring up a good point about spraying outside...overpsray. Take note of what is downwind. ← True. Most of my spraying is done in my garage for now. I can fill the tiny garage up with some dust in one coat. Not much, but it's still enough to drift over to the nieghbors yard and kill there bird in the cage outside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunkielad Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I THOUGHT the biggest problem with 2Pk was the Iso cyanate being carcenogenic (sp?) I buy low Iso Cyanate stuff anyway. I've sprayed outside before (mainly motorbike panels) so no probs there but we get a hell of a lot of dust around here and that's my biggest worry. I'll have a play in my shop (not a lot of room though) in the next few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Low isocyanate is apparently giving you a false sense of comfort. That's kind of like saying you can drink water because it's not -that- polluted. There's not a chance I'd -ever- spray 2 pack paints without a forced air respirator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Alex Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I used 2 pack industrial poly without a respirator, I'm still good. I'm just having to take a week or so off while my throat recovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Do what you want with your health. You have been warned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I used 2 pack industrial poly without a respirator, I'm still good. I'm just having to take a week or so off while my throat recovers. ← Bad Idea. My old man has multiple myloma.....bone cancer basically. It is caused by solvents and airbore particulates. So be very careful and protect yourself. Its like safe sex dont be stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Not only do the two pack paints have solvents and airborn particulates, they have iso cyanates that an organic filter respirator will -not- stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Alex Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) I used 2 pack industrial poly without a respirator, I'm still good. I'm just having to take a week or so off while my throat recovers. ← Bad Idea. My old man has multiple myloma.....bone cancer basically. It is caused by solvents and airbore particulates. So be very careful and protect yourself. Its like safe sex dont be stupid. ← Yeah yeah I know, I can use my brothers respirator in weekends, which I'll do, but trust me, I've been exposed to MUCH worse things than industrial poly, MUCH worse. Can I Hear ya say, BIOLOGICAL PESTICIDES!!! Containing things such as antifreeze, and chemicals I cant even remember the name of cos there so long. Edit: Any major health problems I get during my lifetime, I can just sue the government for. I doubt I'll win, But if enough people do, like agent orange and all those things, eventually somebody will win, they messed with our whole city. Edited September 14, 2005 by Mr Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Not only do the two pack paints have solvents and airborn particulates, they have iso cyanates that an organic filter respirator will -not- stop. ← So does CA glue.....oddly enough people use more of it on here than anywhere. All the more reason to do it outside if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlGeeEater Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Yeah yeah I know, I can use my brothers respirator in weekends, which I'll do, but trust me, I've been exposed to MUCH worse things than industrial poly, MUCH worse. Can I Hear ya say, BIOLOGICAL PESTICIDES!!! Containing things such as antifreeze, and chemicals I cant even remember the name of cos there so long. Edit: Any major health problems I get during my lifetime, I can just sue the government for. I doubt I'll win, But if enough people do, like agent orange and all those things, eventually somebody will win, they messed with our whole city. ← That's nothing to brag about man. But, it's your life, dispose of it as you wish I guess Ooo, sue the government. No wonder taxes are so high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Yeah yeah I know, I can use my brothers respirator in weekends, which I'll do, but trust me, I've been exposed to MUCH worse things than industrial poly, MUCH worse. Can I Hear ya say, BIOLOGICAL PESTICIDES!!! Containing things such as antifreeze, and chemicals I cant even remember the name of cos there so long. Edit: Any major health problems I get during my lifetime, I can just sue the government for. I doubt I'll win, But if enough people do, like agent orange and all those things, eventually somebody will win, they messed with our whole city. ← Man you aint seen nothin till you've seen someone go through chemo. The question is can you get out of bed to sue the governemnt.....Or maybe you die during the bone marrow transplant. One of the friends my dad made during his stay in the hospital died 2 months after her transplant. Just somthing to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Alex Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) Look I'm sorry to hear that, but seriously,"you aint seen nothin". Dude, I dropped out of school to nurse my mum, whilst she went downhill from motor neurone disease. She went from regular health to barely able to move and unable to talk, to eventually dying in the shortest 8 months of my life. 8 months! We were told you can last up to 5 years, and to expect around 2! Edit: when I say barely able to move, I mean that she could sort of tilt her head stilghtly. Edited September 14, 2005 by Mr Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunkielad Posted September 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 (edited) Ooops what have I started Nevermind - so back on track - If I use a winter activator then (this goes offquickerin lower temps so I'm assuming will go off VERY quick at summer temp) then I should be ok and be able to finish (polish) withn the week? I alwaysuse RELEVANT safety gear and the guy at the spray shop says that the stuff they sell, they are trained using carbon masks and there are NO ill effects. The company guarantee this and are alarge manufacturer over here so I trust them. BTW anyone interested it's www.autopaint.co.uk EDIT: Just checked and it's cyanate a free one they do! Edited September 15, 2005 by chunkielad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlGeeEater Posted September 15, 2005 Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 I say stick out the lacquer. Spraying poly over lacquer is just going to yield a soft finish underneath a hard one. Paitence is the key to guitar building. Learn it or suffer the consequences Maybe the next paintjob you do use poly, just stick this out for now. I'm not poly expert, but using the winter activator in summer may cause some blushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted September 15, 2005 Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 (edited) I agree with algee. Poly beats lacquer(in quality...not safety) any day, but if you started with lacquer and don't want to sand it off, finish with lacquer. Maybe it's the heat here in Louisiana, but I almost get blushing spraying Poly with retarder in the heat of summer. Fortunately, every time I've thought I was getting blushing, it would go away once everything dried, but it was a close call. I'd say use winter activator only in the cold weather. If it's cold in the summer, go for it. If it's hot, I wouldn't tempt fate. Edited September 15, 2005 by thegarehanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted September 15, 2005 Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 Not only do the two pack paints have solvents and airborn particulates, they have iso cyanates that an organic filter respirator will -not- stop. ← So does CA glue.....oddly enough people use more of it on here than anywhere. All the more reason to do it outside if possible. ← Not all cyanides are created equal. Look up a datasheet for superglue, and you'll find that while it's a potential irritant, it doesn't contain anything classed as carcinogenic or severly dangerous (chemically). I mean, it's still glue, you don't want to drink it, but given its use in surgery from time to time, it's a relatively safe thing to use. Poly, OTOH, is somewhat of a different story. You also don't spray CA, and rarely use large amounts of it (I pore filled with it, once, and the fumes are really very, very nasty. Solvents Not Good). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunkielad Posted September 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 , but if you started with lacquer and don't want to sand it off, finish with lacquer. I ended up sanding the guitar back as i wasn't happy withthe finishanyway - I got a wired bubbly issue when left in the sun (this was rattle can laquer onto of vinyl so maybe a wierd combo reaction). I think I'll use poly then - OUTSIDE I'm now looking to cover the front with a veneer so lets see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Alex Posted September 15, 2005 Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 , but if you started with lacquer and don't want to sand it off, finish with lacquer. I ended up sanding the guitar back as i wasn't happy withthe finishanyway - I got a wired bubbly issue when left in the sun (this was rattle can laquer onto of vinyl so maybe a wierd combo reaction). I think I'll use poly then - OUTSIDE I'm now looking to cover the front with a veneer so lets see what happens. ← Sorry for what I said earlier, I was just a dick, The nitro laquer will react with the vinyl, there is a page on frets.com dedicated to vinyl being your enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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