The Classic Telecaster

[DrummerDude]

That Link to ebay.ca didn't work for some dum reason.  You seem to have formatted correctly, but ebay.ca (unlike ebay.com?) didn't like the deep-linking.

My thoughts-- it can't be TOO hard to find a straight-on picture of a 60's telecaster, or even its cavities.  (Haven't actually tried it, though, to be honest!)  Then you can use your mad maffematic skills (ie. blow it up or use an overhead projector on top of your outline, with ruler in hand), you can get within a millimetre or two.

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Thanks, Greg.

I substituted the link for a direct image.

Didn't get the "overhead projector" part. Wish my English was better.

You mean take a photo of a Tele and resize it to fit the exact measurements? If this is what you meant, then I've done it a million times. There are no quality photos of stripped to the bone Classic Telecasters and even if there are any, they are always angled, meaning that the guy who took the picture was not holding the camera in the absolute front of the Tele body.

Or maybe you had in mind another method?

Thanks!

Edited October 2, 2005 by DrummerDude

[jnewman]

The pictures on Fender.com are perfect straight on pictures . Unfortunately, Gibson doesn't do the same thing. Hmph.

[DrummerDude]

The pictures on Fender.com are perfect straight on pictures . Unfortunately, Gibson doesn't do the same thing. Hmph.

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Thanks, jnewman.

I just checked Fender.com out and unfortunately there were no photos of a stripped Telecaster body with all the cavities seen.

Maybe I missed that section of the site. Do you have a direct link to a Tele body photo?

Thank you

[marksound]

Try here. Not a 60s body, but should get you pretty darn close.

[DrummerDude]

Try here. Not a 60s body, but should get you pretty darn close.

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Thanks, marksound The frontal pic looks big enough. Camera angle is well centered too. Let's see if this pic is really big enough for a precise scale.

Meanwhile if you guys come across a bigger photo, please post the link here.

TY!

[DrummerDude]

Hey guys I think I just made myself an accurate Telecaster Plan!!!

I used the pic marksound posted to make it.

Click here for the fulll-size plan.

I still need someone to compare it with an original plan and check if the values, shown on the pic below match with those on my self-made plan. Pic:

By the way, does anyone have these values? I could use them and make my plan absolutely precise. Then everybody could use it for free and no more Google nightmares.

Thanks!

[GregP]

I'm in NO way trying to flame you with this statement, but: That should be plenty good! Get the parts. Print the full-size plan... and give'er. You should really be worried about getting the parts to work together rather than worrying about a millimetre here and there!

For example, if you make your neck to the best of your ability, and it seems to be as bang-on as it's going to get, wouldn't you still rather make the neck pocket based on the neck you've crafted, rather than based on some measurements? For this kind of build, I personally feel that unless you're using tried-and-tested templates, you're better off going in an acceptable 'order' of things for your build and ensuring precision between the parts rather than precision compared to a drawing.

Just $0.02 I loooooove Telecaster-style guitars, and I hope this one goes great for you.

Greg

PS, if you REAALLY want those numbers, all you really need is the measurement from the outer limit of the neck pocket to the very end of the guitar (where the endpin will go). Knowing that measurement will allow you to calculate all of the other measurements you see there.

Greg

[DrummerDude]

Thanks for the reply, Greg.

No, I will not buy the parts before I have a body.

And since I have never built one before, I am not skilled at routing, (have no routing experience at all) I don't have any router jigs and I don't have a test-proven guitar plan yet.

Jeezuz, I don't have a router yet! Intend to rent one for the job.

No, I will not buy all those expensive parts just to find out that I can't build the body. Don't need a pile of guitar parts and I don't wan to be forced to buy a replacement body for them just because it turned out that I can't make one myself.

I don't want to spend money on suspicious eBay plans and templates too.

But we discussed this already several posts back.

About the calculating method you described - this is exactly what I did. I used the basic body measurements (got them from Marty) and I scaled the Warmoth photo so it fit them.

This does not guarantee me anything. Maybe the photo was angled, maybe my Imperial to Metric conversion was not precise, maybe I just did something wrong and so on... That's why I need someone to check if my plan is OK.

I need to know this for sure before I start it all.

[thegarehanman]

If the photo was angled, your ratio of neck pocket length to body lenght would be the same. Just an FYI.

[DrummerDude]

If the photo was angled, your ratio of neck pocket length to body lenght would be the same. Just an FYI.

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Try making an accurate plan out of this:

I do not intend to start arguements about PhotoShopping angled images. It simply des not work in terms of accuracy.

I'd like to hear the opinion of someone who could actually help me with my self-made Telecaster plan.

Edited October 3, 2005 by DrummerDude

[Mickguard]

Drummerdude, listen to Greg's advice --you don't want to build your body until you have your parts.

There's no point in routing your neck pocket if it isn't going to fit your neck, is there? Parts are extremely variable, it helps to have them there with you.

I don't understand the part about renting a router --buy a cheap one and a couple of decent bits.

As for the measurements --is it really that important to have the EXACT measurements of a telecaster?

For one of the guitars I'm working on--in the drawing stage--I did the same thing, worked from a photo. I then scaled it up to match the width of the heel of the neck I was planning on using. Then I made a prototype out of a piece of scrap, and it worked out quite well.

In any event --you're going to want to practice up, so print out your plan, get to work on your template, make a prototype --you'll more easily see what, if anything, needs to be fixed that way.

[GregP]

[edit: cross-posted with idch]

That straight-on picture looked good enough, no? Not sure what the angled one has to do with it now that you've found a straight-on one and have already made a plan.

I said I wasn't flaming you.

My advice stands, even if it wasn't exactly the advice you were looking for.

Now, since I'm not an angry sort, I'll try to rephrase my advice in a way that will be a bit more helpful:

I knew that you're a beginner, which is why I'm saying that you shouldn't worry so much about getting everything to the millimetre. If you have a pickguard, you can make sure that your neck pickup is going to go 'through' it properly, which is all that really matters. Since the bridge is a big plate, ditto there.

Chances are good that you're going to have a tearout or some other sort of accident, and as soon as you have one little accident, having a millimetre-to-millimetre replica has gone out the window anyhow. Wouldn't you rather do it in a fun way? Get a kick out of it!

I bet that at the time 60's telecasters were made, factory tolerances and equipment weren't such that each and every body was exactly to-the-millimetre identical anyhow, which is why I say that it's best to do it in the spirit of the thing rather than worry so much about the numbers.

It's been proven time and time again, and is common sense, that your neck pocket will be a better one if it's made with the neck already ready to go. If you would rather have gaps in the pocket because you tried to do it to a measurement rather than to the neck and your own PERSONAL measurements, I and many other people would think that you'd be making a mistake. Warmoth bodies and necks (for example) are made with a computer-controlled device, which is why they're interchangeable and are pretty much a good fit. You don't have that luxury, so you are better off doing it with a different approach.

A one-off personalized build is approached differently than assembling a guitar together from parts, which I'm sure you know well enough.

Most of all, there's no room to be touchy... we're all here to learn... and if what I've said isn't answering exactly what you've asked, and the ONLY answer you'd be happy with is an exact answer to what you've asked, then I'm afraid it's going to be tricky to learn.

Greg

[DrummerDude]

Thanks guys.

Seems that you got me wrong.

I am not touchy and I am not angry at anyone.

I'm just looking for help & advices. This topic needs to be focused on the making of a Tele plan and I want people to have a look at the plan I made and share their opinions about it.

Please, keep off-topics off. (Metric vs imperial is a great subject to discuss but I'd be thankful if you guys open a new topic and we will talk abaout this there. Same goes for PhotoShop tricks)

You are right, seems that making an EXACT copy of a vintage Telecaster is not possible at all, so long live Warmoth. My plan is made after a pic of one of their bodies anyway.

I will reconsider the idea of buying a neck before having the body done. Still, the thought of buying it and then being unable to make a body for it is making me really nervous. I'll try to practice on scrap wood, hope that this helps develop some routing skills.

Yes, an alternative and much easier way would be to simply scale the whole plan, so that the neck pocket cavity reaches the original dimensions of a Warmoth neck heel. Then I will have a very precise plan and (hopefully) template which will help me build a very close duplicate of their bodies without the risk of buying a neck.

Sounds great, but I still need those original measurements. And that's why I posted this image, requesting info on the dimensions.

If you have a Warmoth Telecaster neck, please measure it's heel and share the results.

Thanks!

[Mickguard]

Well, there's another approach --it's actually what I'm doing right now.

I'm waiting for the neck I'm going to use to get here in the mail. In the meantime, I made my templates, and I'm preparing as much of the body as I can -- in fact, I'm doing everything BUT the neck pocket.

When I receive the neck, I'll measure the heel, prepare my templates and route the pocket accordingly.

This way, I don't feel like I'm just sitting around twiddling my thumbs...

But you should definitely consider practicing for some time before attempting this --using a router isn't rocket science, but there are plenty of things to know about before taking one to your body wood.

As for wanting us to stick to only what YOU want us to discuss --sorry, no can do. From what we see, you're going about this the wrong way. And we're trying to help -- both Greg and I have made similar mistakes! Ain't that true, Greg?

Now, you have the right, of course, to be stubborn. We have the right to call you on that.

[DrummerDude]

Well, there's another approach --it's actually what I'm doing  right now.

I'm waiting for the neck I'm going to use to get here in the mail. In the meantime, I made my templates, and I'm preparing as much of the body as I can -- in fact, I'm doing everything BUT the neck pocket.

When I receive the neck, I'll measure the heel, prepare my templates and route the pocket accordingly.

Makes sense, I wish I could do that too but unfortunately I don't have any templates because I don't have a plan to make them after.

Actually I do have one, but I need it checked by someone who has a Tele and is willing to help.

[DrummerDude]

Problem - solved.

http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/necks/necks....fuseaction=heel

[GregP]

OK, sorry if I misunderstood you, DrummerDude. Certainly no hard feelings over here. You're a man on a mission. A guitar-related mission. There's plenty of room for passion.

I was going to post back what idch already wrote, but I'll reword some of it:

I don't think he was suggesting that you use a pre-made template to get started. I believe he was saying that you need to MAKE your template before cutting into your actual guitar-body wood. I made mine using MDF, and I recommend MDF as an easily-cut, easily-workable material for building up your templates.

Once you've got your MDF (or whatever) templates done, you move on to the actual wood! (what wood will you use? Ash?) Get the body outline done, at least, and the electronics cavity. I wouldn't think you could go TOOooo wrong by getting the pickup cavities started, either, since they're largely covered up by pickguard/bridge, so there's room for minor errors. You sound like a precision-minded guy anyhow, so I'm not worried at all about the cavities.

BUT, regardless of the dimensions given on the Warmoth site, do NOT make the neck pocket yet. There's no reason to, and here are my 2 thoughts on that matter:

1. Without the neck in hand, you could STILL make errors that will render the neck unusable.

2. It's actually literally EASIER to do it if you already have the neck! You don't need a "neck pocket template", you use the neck itself to craft a one-time, customized "template" (to use the term loosely) by butting up pieces of wood against the actual neck itself-- one on each side, and one for the end of the neck. Clamp it all into place, take away the neck, and you have a perfect fit.

My description of #2 is very short-- it's not THAT quick and easy. You will need to research the technique, but there are lots of resources on this very site. I believe that Myka's neck pocket jig is stickied somewhere, and while you may not want to build a permanent fixture like his, it'll at least give you the IDEA of what's needed, ya know?

Greg

[Cadinho]

hey you guys,

Why don´t you use fender's parts diagram from the fender website:

http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/pdf...0131202BPg1.pdf

You can even convert the pdf file to cad file. or print on the scale on acrobat.

for the pdf to cad converter go to:

http://www.download.com/PDF-2-DXF/3000-667...tml?tag=lst-0-9

Hope it helps...

cheers...

[Mickguard]

hey you guys,

Why don´t you use fender's parts diagram from the fender website:

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In my experience, there are so many variables, that it's better to work from parts that are actual in your possession. Unless ALL of the parts come from the same guitar, of course. In which case why build what's already built?

[DrummerDude]

Thank you, Greg.

I will need an accurate plan to make the templates.

I like to believe that my plan is pretty precise now (thanks to the Warmoth info pages)

Now I will need some extra info on building a good template. Forum search is my first option. Meanwhile links to sites that show the process of making a decent template are much appreciated.

Thanks!

[guitarded]

i have found that getting the parts ahead of time is sound advice. after i cut and routed my first body, i wondered about the size of the neck pocket, size of switch holes, cavity cover sizes, bridge holes, etc. i actually began taking apart my other guitars to size up my routes and holes. i quickly ordered the parts i needed. at that point it made life easier. it would be a bummer to make your neck pocket the wrong size. also, pickup, tremolo and cavity template prices are pretty reasonable. you can get them at stewmac. as for the body template, i have bought templates from both ron kirn and guitarbuildingtemplates.com. the ones from gbt.com are head and shoulders above kirns (the ebay dude). the materials gbt.com uses are much better, plus you get neck templates. with ron kirn, you will not get the neck templates. they are both approx. the same price... so you do the math. also, when i got the templates from kirn, the edges were dinged up. not a good thing if you want to follow it with a router.

[javacody]

I admire your tenacity, and I wish you the best of luck.

I noticed you said the first tele's and also mentioned the 60's, are you after a 60's tele, or a 50's tele?

[DrummerDude]

javacody, I am no longer after one of those models (50's & 60's)

Couldn't find any information about the essential measuerements of the old classics.

Now I am working on a "modern" sized Telecaster, using measurements and information from Warmoth (the plan I made myself is completely based on photos, diagrams and dimensions, taken from both Fender and Warmot sites). Seems that it will turn out to be an exact modern Fender copy at the end (or a Warmoth copy, if you prefer )

Now it is template making time. What would be better: use a whole body template with all the routing cavities on it OR severall small templates for the different routes (bridge pickup, neck pickup, neck socket, etc.) instead?

Thank you for all your support, people!

[GregP]

Easy! Make a template with the biggest and most obvious cavities already on it...

Why?

Because if you screw up the cavity part, the 'outline' part of the template is still useful and THEN you can make separate templates. If you do it all separately, mind you, there's the advantage of being able to use the templates on different styles of guitars (though, if you're creative, you can STILL use the 'tele' body and just the cavity portions).

The way I see it, you get a 'free' shot at doing it right. If you pull it off first try, great-- you have a most-in-one template. But if you don't, well, there's always other plywood/mdf/whatever to give it another go.

I wouldn't put the neck cavity on it, though. I'd use one of the recommended methods similar to those used by the famous "neck pickup jigs", even if you don't build a full-time jig. A makeshift one-off jig is still a better idea, IMO.

Greg

[Mickguard]

I made two body templates for my current project --one is solid, no cavity routes. The other has the cavity routes.

Mostly because I'm still learning with the router--its easier to work on the body shape with a solid surface, gives a bit more support for the router.