Mattia Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Hmm...I'm not so sure here. If I'm following this correctly, you built up the heel on the neck (added a block), then cut inwards a little, cut a matching mortise, and now the block you added to the neck, plus maybe a tiny bit more/tiny part of the original neck is embedded in a nice, tight route (one assumes). That right? Also, how thick is the top you're adding to this? Does it in any way 'surround' the neck (ie, how many frets are over the body on this, and I don't mean the extension bit that's holding the tounge down)? If it's not thicker than 1/4", that's looking like it might be a very 'proud' fingerboard surface. If I've got something wrong here, better photographs from various angles would help. The thing I'm slightly worried about here is flex. How flexible is that neck, side to side? Up and down? After you shave the heel? The neck on that red guitar I entered into the GOTM is very long (24 frets, 22 clear of body), and has virutally no heel (but a long tenon), and it's only just 'stiff' enough for me (friend I built it for is used to much 'floppier' strat necks), and I think it's the neck length/tiny heel combo. Less obvious on a 22 fretter, to me. You should be able to compare the 'flex' already, in a wholly unscientific way, by tugging at the neck a bit and comparing it to other instruments. Next up: assuming the glue joints are nice and tight, and/or that you epoxied it all together if they were a little 'looser' than desired, I really don't see how adding screws will do much of anything. A good glue joint is just as (un)likely to 'fail' as is the bit of wood next to it. If the design/location of the neck is solid enough, it's solid enough, and if it's not, screws won't solve anything (again, assuming good glue joints). Shots of the neck area, namely side (both sides), back, and top (maybe angled from bottom of body up), and info on top thickness, how tight that fits, etc. might help here. My worry is that, once you carve away most of that heel, you'll have essentially a very thin piece of wood transitioning from body to neck, then a pickup route to weaken things further, then... What it reminds me most of is that shot of that 70's (or something) SG in Melvyn Hiscock's MYOEG, in the design/neck joint chapter. And I'm not entirely sure that's a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted November 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 As long as the tenon is sufficiently strong, then the joint will have no issues--it's basically the same joint as any setneck guitar. So the big question is: is this tenon strong enough as is? If not, what's the best way to reinforce it? Assuming you had two perfectly flat surfaces, no gaps, when you glued it all up, and clamped 'em good and tight (glue line should be quasi invisible), you should be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSo_Spencer Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 looking dead sexy idch - i love the headstock it suites that guitar completely keep the pics coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirapop Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 Idch, just stringing up the neck isn't going to be the real test. The neck has to carry that load for years, plus the vibration of the strings, you handling the guitar as you play, and the odd knocks, when it bumps into things. Let me say this again: there are well designed glue joints and there are poorly designed glue joints. Think about this... wouldn't it be easier to make a tilt-back head with a butt joint instead of a scarf? If you wanted a 7° tilt, just crank the table saw blade over 3½° and trim the ends of the neck blank and the headstock. I've got a saw blade that will leave a cut surface smooth as glass, for a perfect gap-less fit. People keep repeating the glue is stronger than the wood. This should work shouldn't it? But, when have you ever seen a guitar with that kind of head joint? You haven't because it doesn't work. Good glue joints put the glue line in shear. The glue line is much weaker when the forces are trying to peel it apart. A headstock butt joint is mostly in compression, but, the string tension is trying to straighten out the headstock and puts a prying load on the glueline. The glue might be strong enough to allow it to be strung up and played. But time under load and a stray bump would be all it takes to fail that glue line. A scarf joint also has that prying load, but, it's spread out over a larger area to reduce it's intensity. The tapered thickness make it more flexible, transmitting less load to the very edge of the glue line. A quick google finds that the string tension for a 25.5" scale guitar is 122 lb. The height from the strings to the glue line between your bolt-on and the tenon is what? 2" maybe? So, your glue line has a prying load of 244 in-lb. That's why I suggested you put screws into the neck. The glue line at the headstock end of the surface is in tension. I'm an aerospace structural engineer. I work with carbon fiber and much of it is put together in bonded joints. I don't know the specific strength of the glue you're using or the wood for that matter, so, I can't guarantee that your neck joint is going to fail. I can only tell you that after all that work you've put in, a couple screws are cheap insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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tirapop Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 2"?... I can't estimate dimensions when I'm tired. What you want to reinforce is the glue line between the bolt-on and the tenon. You could put a screw up through the tenon into the neck. Putting screws through the heel, all the way into the neck would be stronger still. Is that something that needs to be hidden? As far as sinking the neck into the body, sure it helps. Does it help enough? I don't know. You'd still want to reinforce the tenon. Your original design featured the tall neck and I think you can keep that with a reinforced tenon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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n8rofwyo Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Looks good, Idch. Are you sticking with the original finish idea? I think the translucent red over black would look pretty damn sharp on the rocket. Hope everything continues to go well. Nate Robinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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marksound Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Holy crap, man. I hope that thing plays as good as it looks. I gotta get busy on the BluesBeater. ::mutters:: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSo_Spencer Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 (edited) oi man that thing is Sex..... i love it... the v idea of black paint sounds alright sorta what i was thinking of doing before i scraped my neck... yeah.... i dunno about the 350 logo kinda makes me think of cars why dont you do like you signature thatd look great... Edited December 10, 2005 by ZoSo_Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 (edited) Lookin good! It looks from the pics that the inside of the horns and around the neck joint still needs to be sanded before finishing. Not sure if you already knew that or if it's just in the pics but it's important to get the wood as perfect as you can before finishing. It will make your life much easier later. Okay mabey nt your life, but deffinitly the finishig process. I think you should go with white. It would be a shame to paint such a pretty guitar a dark color. But hey thats just me Is that an original design or is it a copy of something? Edited December 10, 2005 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted December 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
american_jesus Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 dude, that's really slick...loooks great...can't wait to see it finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeiscosRock Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Im really digging this thing, idch, great job so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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!!METAL MATT!! Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 You know me idch man Im A Metal Head spikey guitar builder and I dont like that style of guitar, but I will say that you do some cool stuff and some wierd stuff and you try some new stuff, I love that This new one kicks but man! !!METAL MATT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSo_Spencer Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 yeah.... i dunno about the 350 logo kinda makes me think of cars why dont you do like you signature thatd look great... ← I also like this next one, which would go on a long white plastic truss rod cover: ← I like alot... this one has my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAmUBUF Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 yeah.... i dunno about the 350 logo kinda makes me think of cars why dont you do like you signature thatd look great... ← This is a tough one...for the photo I was playing around with using a different logo style across the headstock, something like this: I also like this next one, which would go on a long white plastic truss rod cover: And I have one more like a Rickenbacker logo (for a flipped truss rod cover): I don't really want to imitate the Rickenbacker logo too closely though --I'm not trying to fool anyone. But their truss rod cover is a big part of the look of their guitars...At any rate, any logo I do will be on plastic, not directly on the headstock, so I'll have time to play with that while the finish dries. ← I'm with zoso spencer. it feels more (for lack of a better word) informal. it makes it look more friendly and personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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