Black Mariah Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 The Myka Dragonfly has inspired me. I want to build a smallish (about the same size as a Jackson Jazz'R) archtop with full jazz box appointments (excluding binding and inlays, like the Dragonfly). Definitely not the kind of guitar you see a metalhead with onstage, but then again I'm not most metalheads. I'm planning on building a prototype before I move on to the large droppage of coin. For this I'll just use some pine to create the sides and back. Probably carve the top out of pine too just for the hell of it. Nothing special, just some practice. Now finally the questions. Since my primary concern at this time, unfortunately, is cost, what are the drawbacks of using a bent top instead of a carved top? I know I can save a significant amount of money by using thinner wood. Is there a good demonstration somewhere of the technique used to bend tops? Second, and I know this is a derp of a question, but what's the deal with the tailpiece? How does it attach to the body? DOES IT attach to the body? I know it's dumb, but I've never seen an article on archtop building that's covered the tailpiece details and I've never had a decent archtop in my hands. I'm sure I'll have some other questions but that's it for now. Thanks for any info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Bent top in what sense? If you want the carved look, you're going to have to carve it. Bending won't cut it. Some guitars have curved (side to side) tops, like Brian Moores, but if you want a Jazz Box/Archtop look, you'll have to shell out for a carveable top. Doesn't have to be super fancy, or terribly expensive. You're not building a primarily acoustic instrument, so you won't need master grade spruce billets, and since it's going to be compact, that's another point in your favour. As for tailpieces, depends on the tailpiece. I've got zero direct experience with the things, though. Pretty much all tailpieces are connected to the tail/end block, often around the endpin, sometimes with additional screws, and float over the top, held in place by string tension. Just browse StewMac's various offerings, and look at the pictures/isntructions. This fairly detailed info on Benedetto's archtop tailpiece should help as well: http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/I-5270.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mariah Posted October 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 For example, I have a cheapass LP copy that has a plywood top. Obviously it's not carved, it's bent into that shape somehow. That's what I'm talking about. I don't even know if it's possible with solid wood, so that's why I'm asking. I can get a 2A sitka spruce top from exoticwoods.com for about $80 so I'm not too scared of the price. Like you said, I don't need mega-flamed koa or anything. As long as it works, I'm good. It's not going to be THAT compact though. The size I'm going for... like a narrower ES-335 but with more depth. I didn't see those instructions earlier. I saw the Benedetto tailpiece but I keep forgetting that StewMac has pretty much all their instructions online. That explains pretty much everything for me. Much simpler than I thought. I find it interesting that the tailpiece apparently makes very little contact with the guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 That cheapass Les Paul almost certainly has a carved top with a veneer vacuum pressed on top to make it look pretty. There are laminated wood archtops out there, generally the slightly cheaper ones, but you buy the plates pre-pressed; it's not really a 'do it easily at home' kind of thing. I'd think you could probably get a slightly better deal than 80 bucks, looking around, but I'm no archtop woods specialist. As for the tailpiece, if it contacted the top on an acoustic instrument too much, it would act as a strong dampner. Play an acoustic and rest your hand behind the bridge; the result generally ain't great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mariah Posted October 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 No, it's definitely plywood all the way through. Not carved. No veneer either, just plain black paint. I figured that if it was doable it would be a pain in the ass. Gotta find these things out though. I haven't really looked around for wood yet. $80 doesn't make me cringe so if I can find it for less, that's just a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 The cost of the wood will not be a problem (unless you do for some crazy figured expensive material). The sides will be less than a solid body blank(again unless you go over the top with the type of wood), and that will help offset a little added expense for the top. I would recommend that you get a book. Read it and understand the process. There will be plenty of new techniques and skills that you will need to understand. It is great that you are going to practice on less expensive wood, your comfort level will go up significantly with a little practice. Slow your process down, and take your time. Peace,Rich P.S. You might want to check with Myka on his construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
possum1284 Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 benedetto wrote a great book, i own it . its vey helpfull and will answer all the questions you aske thers a whole chapter or so on the tail piece. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mariah Posted October 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 No crazed figured wood here. It would be a total waste on my first guitar. Just basic mahogany for the back and sides. I'll probably get Benedetto's book before I start in on the REAL guitar. I found something like what I'm going for. The Kinal Mini Voyager. That, with an archtop. Two humbuckers, acoustic style bridge (maybe not... I have an extra ToM laying around... ), ebony board (no inlays). Mahogany neck, sides and back. Oh yeah... I'm starting to see this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
possum1284 Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 im actually building an archtop. did you use x bracing? whats the hieght of the sides? finally How dod u do that bridge its very cool? excelent job by the way. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Here are a couple of links that I found to be helpful. Maybe useful to you or maybe not. Arching PDF This one is not aimed at archtops specifically, but some very nice jigs and tools. Link Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mariah Posted October 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 im actually building an archtop. did you use x bracing? whats the hieght of the sides? finally How dod u do that bridge its very cool? excelent job by the way. Adam ← I didn't build that one! If I did, do you think I'd be asking these dumbass questions? I was just using that Kinal to illustrate what I'm going for. I'm not sure how wide his sides are. I'm probably going to do mine 2-1/2" since 5" sides seem to be standard and I can just rip those in half in case I screw up a couple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccbryan Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 im actually building an archtop. did you use x bracing? whats the hieght of the sides? finally How dod u do that bridge its very cool? excelent job by the way. Adam ← Possum, I'm pretty sure archtops aren't generally braced. The arch gives the top sufficient strength by itself. Also, with a tailpiece the stress on the top is much less than with a glued-on bridge. And tune-o-matics on archtops are common... http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailp...top_Guitar.html Chandler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Possum, I'm pretty sure archtops aren't generally braced. The arch gives the top sufficient strength by itself. Also, with a tailpiece the stress on the top is much less than with a glued-on bridge. And tune-o-matics on archtops are common... http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailp...top_Guitar.html Chandler ← Um, true acoustic archtops ARE braced, generally X, sometimes in other ways. The arch provides a lot of support, but not all of it. Even violions have a modicum of bracing (bass bar, IIRC), not 'just' an arched top. The torque on the bridge is decreased by using a tailpiece, but there's still a fair amount of downward pressure. I wouldn't call TOM's 'common' on acoustic archtops (ie, those without big honkin' pickup holes routed in them), per se. Electric ones, yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mariah Posted October 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Archtops are either X braced or parallel braced (where the braces run down either side of the bridge, basically). I've yet to see any that weren't one or the other, although I'm sure they exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccbryan Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Archtops are either X braced or parallel braced (where the braces run down either side of the bridge, basically). I've yet to see any that weren't one or the other, although I'm sure they exist. ← Eek! Please allow me to apologize for shooting my mouth off without knowing what the hell I was talking about. Chandler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunbarhamlin Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 For info on bending soundboard plates for an archtop like result, check Graham McDonald's bouzouki article His book, The Bouzouki Book, has other interesting stuff too that I haven't seen elsewhere and which has wider application than just mandolin family instruments, such as frame built neck blocks for electric-style bolt on necks on an acoustic. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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