Tele Sc+hb + 4-pole Superswitch

[GregP]

Hey all,

I'm re-wiring my telecaster-style guitar, which has a stock single-coil in the neck, and an SD Little '59 in the bridge, which is a 4-conductor humbucker.

I came across this diagram:

http://guitarelectronics.zoovy.com/product/WDUHS5L1101

Which will be fine if nothing else comes up. I will MAINLY want the following 3 options:

1 - neck only

2 - <to be decided>

3 - neck and one coil of bridge, to be hum-cancelling

4 - <to be decided>

5 - bridge humbucker at full

(sorry, I've listed them backwards from that diagram, but I'm sure you get the idea)

The diagram also has bridge single-coil and neck + humbucker, which are 'fine' options, and I'll go with them and still be happy. But I was hoping that somehow either some series vs. parrallel or in-phase vs. out-of-phase trickery could be had instead, to broaden the sonic palette.

Any suggestions, or is that GuitarElectronics diagram pretty much my best bet?

Greg

[lovekraft]

I'd add bridge single/neck in series (humbucking) - it's a nice option, not as dark as a humbucker, but much thicker than a single (almost Red Special-ish). I don't wire standard Teles without the series combo anymore, unless it's by special request.

[GregP]

That's different than just position 3? Is position 3 parallel, then?

Is there any way to add your series neck+bridge sound without additional switches?

Greg

[lovekraft]

Nearly all things are possible with a 4 pole Superswitch! And yes, a normal Strat setup runs the pickups in parallel.

[GregP]

Have you seen such a diagram anywhere? I can solder stuff if I'm told "wire A goes to tab B" with the help of a diagram, but there's no way I can figure this stuff out on my own. I browsed through all of GuitarElectronics, but the only ones with interesting options were in categories that my pickups don't fit.

With more knowledge of electronics, I could "extract" bits and pieces, but I'm not that good. <laff>

Greg

[lovekraft]

Well, since it's you..., seriously, decide what choices you want in each position and let me know, and it will be my distinct pleasure to draw up a diagram for you. Edited October 23, 2005 by lovekraft

[GregP]

Heheheh! Well, in that case.... with position 1 meaning 'neck' position:

1. Neck only

2. Neck and one bridge coil, humbucking, parallel

3. Neck and one bridge coil, humbucking, series

4. One coil of bridge OR "all 3 coils" (see below)

5. Full bridge humbucker

If there's an easier way of doing it by switching the order around, I'm pretty indifferent as long as the order makes sense somehow. At the end of the day, even if it doesn't 'make sense', it's only 5 positions... I'll just memorize.

The neck plus humbucker (ie, all coils) didn't seem like it'd be all that sonically interesting, though I could be wrong. On the other hand, I'm only keeping the "one coil of bridge" option there for legacy 'true telecaster' reasons, and if the neck plus humbucker (ie, all coils) is actually a decent-sounding option, I'm willing to forego the 'one coil of bridge' option, which I rarely use. I've split the coil on the humbucker before, and I'm honestly not all that thrilled with it as a standalone single-coil. But like I said, if the "all coils on" option isn't all that interesting, then the single-coil bridge is fine.

Thanks, LK. You're the best!

Since we're in a wiring/soldering thread already... I know there are probably threads to be found with the 'search' function or by Googling other sites... but a quick question about soldering guns/stylus --

I bought a fairly cheap one (stylus/pen/whatever it's called, not full-sized gun) from Radio Shack, and the thick tube extending out of the handle gets ultra-hot while the tip doesn't seem to get hot at all. That tube keeps touching other things and burning/melting them. (including my fingers once... ouch!)

I'd like to get something worthwhile that I can rely on and that I can use for the next decade or so. I can drop a few extra bucks on it (ie. not like that $15 Radio Shack one) but I'm not made of dough right now. Soo... like maybe $50 CDN tops.

What should I be looking for in a gun/stylus that will be primarily used for guitar part soldering and light household duty?

Greg

[lovekraft]

No trouble, I'll try to get it done this afternoon, and post it in the evening. I bought a Xytronic Solder station from Circuit Specialists for about $40USD plus shipping - I'm sure there's a vendor somewhere in Canada, and the price should still be fairly reasonable. OTOH, a decent 25 or 35 watt iron will probably run about half that much - Weller makes a couple of really nice irons as well. You shouldn't have any problem finding something in your price range.

[lovekraft]

Try this, Greg - I think it'll make you happy!

As always, check my work - it looks good to me, but sometimes I miss entire decades! And don't forget the treble bleed cap (not shown) if that's something you want to add (I think I would).

[GregP]

Wowee! Thanks, LK!!

I'll do my best to check your work before soldering, but I'm not all THAT smart, you know.

When a wire is 'split' to multiple lugs on the switch, is it the lugs themselves that actually get soldered together? I think that's how I've seen it done.

For example, in your diagram-- the top left "pole" to which the single-coil is attached-- the 3 lugs to which the white wire are attached don't need 3 separate wires coming off the white in reality, the white would get soldered to lug 2 (for example) and then 2 would get soldered to 3, and 3 to 4. Is that right?

However, for the black lead of the humbucker, there WOULD be an extra wire added, forming a "Y" split -- one half going to the upper right pole. lug 3; while the other goes to the lower left, lug 2. Then lug 2 would get soldered to 4, and 4 to 5.

Or am I out in left field?

Greg

[lovekraft]

Yes - short jumper wires between connected lugs are probably the easiest to do in practice, but they're a lot harder to "draw", and tend to be harder to read! So long as you get the lug connections right, use whatever routing is convenient.

[GregP]

A few last things, LK (or anyone else who cares to respond!), and then I'll leave you alone. (Soldering commences in about 4 hours and counting, btw! Yipee!! I'm going to borrow my dad's gun and then also stop at The Source [ie. Radio Shack] to see what they have on hand)

1. Which option did you pick? The single coil or the "all 3 coils"? Without physically having my switch with me (thus showing how the poles interact) I can't tell from the diagram.

2. What's the best technique/materials for short-wiring the lugs? When I've seen the switches inside my guitars wired up, there seems to be just a thin piece of single-strand (with no jacket) wire connecting them together. I only have multi-strand (whatever it's actually called) copper wire at my disposal, so I guess regardless of common technique, I'll just end up using that. Do people often just "extract" a few strands of the copper for the job? Or should I do it as full-on wire connections, in short little 'loops'?

Ie., with my available materials (the wire and the solder, and that's about it!) what's the best way to wire the lugs together?

Thanks!

[GregP]

I lied.

No soldering yet. I got a new iron, but I'm not sure it'll work out, so I'm keeping it in its packaging until I'm sure... it's only 15W, but the guy said that its heat is more consistent and controlled than the POS I have already.

BUT, that's not the main holdup...

I wanted a new cap for the tone pot, a cap for the treble bleed, and a 400V cap for the 'safety' trick on GuitarNuts (I figured I might as well go whole hog with this). The Source doesn't have ANY of those caps, so I'll have to go to an electronics store that's a bit more specialized. Dunno when that's going to happen because I seem to be working every day for the rest of my life.

When I finally get to such a store, though, they may also have better advice for soldering irons, so I'll keep my mitts off this one until I get that chance.

In the meantime, I'm going to re-foil my cavities and ensure continuity in the conductivity of the shielding. Any solder blobs I need to throw in there can still be done with my old POS while I'm waiting to shop at an electronics store.

I hate when you get the urge to do something and then you don't have the time or other resources to do it.

Greg

[lovekraft]

Yeah, it sucks to get waylaid when you're just about to get a project up and running!

To answer your questions:

1. Position 4 is the bridge single - I couldn't imagine a Tele without a bridge single sound available!
   
2. I just cut short lengths of hookup wire - there's no advantage to using bare wire, and there's always the possibility of a short when you reassemble everything, so I tend to cover every bare wire I can.
   

[GregP]

Thanks, LK. I suspect you're right about the single bridge. It IS a tele-style guitar, after all! I wouldn't want to write to you in a week and say, "You know, it's just not a tele any more".

Cool about the wire soldering. I shall do it that way. Though, I'm inspired by a thought:

Assuming I can make accurate enough 'incisions' in the plastic 'coating' (shield? insulation? Whatever it's called!), couldn't I take a single length of wire (I wouldn't do it to the pickup wire itself, so this would be coming off the lug to which the pickup is soldered), cut up the plastic sheath, and 'slide' some of it along so that the appropriate number of 'bare' spots are exposed, then solder them to the lugs? I know it sounds like more work and all, but it strikes me as an elegant way of doing it.

Greg

[lovekraft]

Elegant perhaps, at least in appearance (once you've finished it), but the process will be awkward, fiddly and fraught with frustration and uncertainty. Why spend the extra time and effort for a result that is, if anything, less reliable and robust? But that's just me again, and I'm a "form follows function" aficionado.

[GregP]

Elegant perhaps, at least in appearance (once you've finished it), but the process will be awkward, fiddly and fraught with frustration and uncertainty.    Why spend the extra time and effort for a result that is, if anything, less reliable and robust? But that's just me again, and I'm a "form follows function" aficionado.

←

Definitely more fiddly, but I'm not certain that it'd be less reliable or robust.

But the more fiddly part is enough to change my mind. After posting that, I went into the other room, grabbed some 22-guage wire, an Xacto, and gave'er a mock-up attempt.

Too frustratingly fiddly. And that's reason enough not to do it, in my books.

Greg

[lovekraft]

I'm not certain that it'd be less reliable or robust.

In my experience, any unnecessarily complicated assembly procedure tends to lower reliability - YMMV, but it's certainly not going to improve anything, is it?

[GregP]

Nope.

On a slightly related note... I unsoldered all my kack today and shielded cavities with copper tape. I'm assuming the StewMac stuff has conductive adhesive... and it'd better, since I don't currently have a voltimeter in my possession for testing stuff. When I get this all wired back up again, I dunno....

I bought some flux, then found out it was flux paste. Don't know if that's good, bad, or neither. What I DO know is that I don't know how to solder. Been doing some test soldering, and the combination of no skill and a crap iron is making me a bit worried... don't want to fry a pot.

Greg

Edited October 26, 2005 by lovekraft

[GregP]

LK,

In your diagram, I'm not sure about the single-coil pickup. My neck pickup has a red and white conductor, plus a braided shield. Since I don't feel like it, I probably won't ground the shield to the cavity; however, that still leaves the red and white wires.

Instinctively, I want to put the white where you have your white, and the red where you have your black. I was going to try to figure it out on my own, but my head's getting fuzzy and I don't quite get it. Each manufacturer does it differently and some are opposite. For example, Fender (upon whom you probably based the diagram since my guitar is tele-like!) has black as ground and white as (+)ve.

In the original wiring with the normal switch, the red was (+) I guess, since the white and braid were soldered together and then grounded. On your diagram, is the black (+)ve or ground? Ie. with my pickup that has white as ground and red as (+)ve, how does that correspond to your diagram?

Thanks!

Greg

PS, I'm almost done. My soldering technique has increased 100-fold just from this one simple project! I'd be done if I was more certain about the diagram.

[lovekraft]

On my diagram, the white single coil lead is hot and the black is ground, so wire your red where my white is shown, and your white where my black appears - clear as mud, right? Oh, and if you don't wire that shield braid to your ground point, you're going to have even more noise problems than you're already dealing with. The devil is in the details, but hang in there, you're almost home!

[GregP]

Yeah,

Well, I wired it all up, it's almost done.. and...

It's hella microphonic. Incidentally, I didn't expect you'd post back so soon, so I already reached the right conclusion about the wires. BUT since I hadn't checked into this thread, I hadn't bothered with that braid yet.

Is it hugely important? My cavity is so small I hate poking around in it, but if it's important I'll do just that. I just assumed that since it's not carrying a signal, it was acting as a "closer to the wire" shielding, which would more or less take the chassis ground and 'extend' it along the length of the wire.

Then again... I think I'll just do it and have done with it.

Any ideas about the microphonics? I could be wrong, since it's been so long, but I don't remember that 'tapping' on the pickup with my fingernail should make a noticeable noise.

I wrapped around the humbucker's tape with copper foil (which is grounded)... this then contacts the bridge plate (not by choice, but just 'cause it's a snug fit). Does that have anything to do with it, or is it an unrelated issue?

Greg

[GregP]

I lied, it's not microphonic after all! Either that, or grounding the braid made more of a difference than I thought it would. <laff>

New problem, though:

I almost never use the tone control in the 'muddiest' region, so I figured I'd try the 'shift your tone range' mod by placing a .012 uf cap in place of the 0.22. When I tried it out, I noticed something weird:

1. My tone got muddier the more I turned it "up"! Right now it's wired with the capacitor on the middle (wiper, no?) lug and then to the star ground. Isn't that the way to do it? Why's it reversed?

2. My entire tone is wacky now! Should it make a difference when the pot is fully 'on'? Ie. not attentuating any frequencies at all?

3. I could be imagining things, but there doesn't seem to be much of a taper to the tone. at "10" and "9" it's kind of muddy, at "8" it clears up, and then anything below "8" seems pretty similar to 8.

Should I just switch the 0.22 cap back in? My stupid control cavity's tough to do these sort of mods in. <grumbles>

Still--- the good news is:

Your wiring seems to be right! You didn't give me the run-down, but based on the tones I'm hearing (keeping in mind I only have one string on right now!!), we have:

1. neck

2. neck and 1 bridge coil, series

3. neck and 1 bridge coil, parallel (I might have got it backwards, but this seems quieter and bucks more hum)

4. single bridge coil

5. bridge humbucker

The neck pickup is still pretty noisy, even after "quieting the beast", but the bridge pickup (even in single-coil mode) is HUGELY more silent.

Also working is the treble bleed on the volume knob. I used a 330pF cap instead of a 0.001uf, but it's working! I like this mod... gotta throw it on all my guitars!

Once I get the tone knob sorted, we can call this exercise successful! First time ever wiring a 'superswitch', and though I needed the diagram itself, I have to say that I'm well-impressed with myself for the patience I had and for the improvements I've made with soldering! It was also great to know (once I put a string on there) that I don't have to pull it all apart now to trouble-shoot. Except for the tone knob, it seems to be working fine!

Get that niggle sorted and we can call this one "done"! Pics to come, though I'm not sure how helpful they'll be to anyone.

Greg

[lovekraft]

Don't worry about trying to ground that braid to the cavity shield - just tack a length of hookup wire to it, and connect it to your star ground point.

Which pickup is microphonic? If it's the single, you might get away with potting it. I think the Little 59 is potted from the factory (but as we know, I could easily be wrong about that ), so if it's acting up, I'd first look for loose leads/intermittent connections. I'm sure there's more, but I'm not thinking very clearly right now -maybe I'll try sleeping on it! If you get it figured out before I get back, sorry about deserting you, but I'm about to fall out at the keyboard - I'm gettin' too old to do 21 hour days with less than 4 hours of sleep, I guess! Good luck, I hope you get it sorted!

[GregP]

Yeah, the microphonics are pretty much gone now. It's the wacky tone pot.

Regarding the braid-- they say specifically in the instructions that it has to go to chassis, not star. Not sure why, but there you have it. It was actually easier to go to chassis anyhow.

Gotta replace that tone cap, though, I think. Sounds like one of the easiest things ever, but with all the wires I now have going on, it's going to be a hassle.

Greg