Zero Fret Question

[SamIAmUBUF]

ok, I want to use a zero fret on my 6-string bass. It's normal to have a nut behind the zero fret to hold the string spacing. Here's my question; Is there any reason why I can't, insead of using a nut, cut slots in the fretboard behind the zero fret to hold the stings in place?

[gripper]

If you are using a string tree or your headstock is angled enough to keep the strings in the fretboard grooves, I can't see a problem. I have also seen an upside-down nut made out of metal that screwed down like a string tree but had slots in it. I kinda thought it was a little ugly but it was on a fretless 4-string that was not that pretty to begin with.

[verhoevenc]

Hahaha, I'm on here ALL the time screaming the awesomeness of one of my favourite builders: Kritz

they do a zero fret on all their guitars, and I think basses too. They still have a nut also, but the zero fret is used to ensure that open strings have the same tonal characteristics as freted notes.

Either way, go read their research and development section (R&D) on their site: www.kritz.com

Chris

[Southpa]

You could use the fretboard wood but under only one condition, the strings have to continue straight on thru. You can't angle them off like they do on Gibson style 3/3 headstocks. Otherwise the fretboard wood is not strong enough to hold the lateral force(s) of string tension and the wood at the outer edges, at the 1st and 6th strings, will split and break off. Even passing the strings straight thru might not prevent splitting. Just a little outward string bending could cause that problem.

Edited October 26, 2005 by Southpa

[Mickguard]

Hahaha, I'm on here ALL the time screaming the awesomeness of one of my favourite builders: Kritz

they do a zero fret on all their guitars, and I think basses too.  They still have a nut also, but the zero fret is used to ensure that open strings have the same tonal characteristics as freted notes.

Either way, go read their research and development section (R&D) on their site: www.kritz.com

Chris

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Heh heh, I love all the cute n' kitschy (and TM'd) names they give to all their ideas...so are the guitars any good?

[SamIAmUBUF]

You could use the fretboard wood but under only one condition, the strings have to continue straight on thru.  You can't angle them off like they do on Gibson style 3/3 headstocks.  Otherwise the fretboard wood is not strong enough to hold the lateral force(s) of string tension and the wood at the outer edges, at the 1st and 6th strings, will split and break off.  Even passing the strings straight thru might not prevent splitting.  Just a little outward string bending could cause that problem.

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that's a really good point. the headstock I have planned would pull the strings straight through the grooves. Unfortunately, I'm using a zero fret so I can bend easier on the first couple of frets. looks like, for the sake of my fretboard, I may have to abandon this idea

Thanks for all of your input

[erikbojerik]

You could use the fretboard wood but under only one condition, the strings have to continue straight on thru.  You can't angle them off like they do on Gibson style 3/3 headstocks.  Otherwise the fretboard wood is not strong enough to hold the lateral force(s) of string tension and the wood at the outer edges, at the 1st and 6th strings, will split and break off.  Even passing the strings straight thru might not prevent splitting.  Just a little outward string bending could cause that problem.

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the headstock I have planned would pull the strings straight through the grooves....I may have to abandon this idea

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I don't follow...are you saying you're not going with a tilt-back headstock? If you have straight pull across the zero fret, and enough wood backing up the slots behind the zero fret, I would have thought you'd be OK even though the grain is (presumably) running parallel to the strings.

I finished an ebony nut for my 5 about a month ago, 13-degree tilt-back with a not-too-severe but certainly-not-straight string path between nut and posts. Works fine so far (but the grain is also perpendicular to the strings).

[SamIAmUBUF]

You could use the fretboard wood but under only one condition, the strings have to continue straight on thru.  You can't angle them off like they do on Gibson style 3/3 headstocks.  Otherwise the fretboard wood is not strong enough to hold the lateral force(s) of string tension and the wood at the outer edges, at the 1st and 6th strings, will split and break off.  Even passing the strings straight thru might not prevent splitting.  Just a little outward string bending could cause that problem.

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the headstock I have planned would pull the strings straight through the grooves....I may have to abandon this idea

←

I don't follow...are you saying you're not going with a tilt-back headstock? If you have straight pull across the zero fret, and enough wood backing up the slots behind the zero fret, I would have thought you'd be OK even though the grain is (presumably) running parallel to the strings.

I finished an ebony nut for my 5 about a month ago, 13-degree tilt-back with a not-too-severe but certainly-not-straight string path between nut and posts. Works fine so far (but the grain is also perpendicular to the strings).

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I'm saying I'm considering scrapping the whole idea and just using a nut. Southpa's advice has raised some serious doubt.

[Stickmangumby]

It would also depend on the distance between the zero fret and the end of the fretboard, as well as the back angle of the headstock as to whether this was feasible. For example, if there was only 1cm between the zero fret and the end of the fretboard, the strings would probably pop out of the slots for them in the fretboard unless the back angle of the headstock was huge.

[verhoevenc]

what I would do, is still have a nut, but just set it SO low that the top of it is flush with the fretboard. So the strings still hit the zero fret, THEN go back over the nut onto the tilted back headstock.

Chris

[SamIAmUBUF]

what I would do, is still have a nut, but just set it SO low that the top of it is flush with the fretboard. So the strings still hit the zero fret, THEN go back over the nut onto the tilted back headstock.

Chris

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the reason I thought of this is that I don't particularly like the appearance of a zero fret with a nut behind it (I think it looks kind of awkward and inconsistant with the rest of the neck), but I love the tonal consistancy and freedom to bend of a zero fret.

[verhoevenc]

exactly, so use an ebony fingerboard and use a graphtechnut. Tada, black with black, and since it'll be flush, you'll barely notice it.

Chris

[verhoevenc]

I've got it!! It's genious, however, in order to do this you'll have to like headless guitars, and those rear mounted tuning bridges.

What you could do is after the zero fret make the strings go down holes through the neck. Ie: to string it you'd stick the string up through th neck, and then the tuners would be behind the bridge like on a steinberger or that one BC Rich Bich model.

OR you could use a normal bridge and normal EVERYTHING, but have the strings go down through the neck after the zero fret again. But with this idea you still have a headstock but with the tuners mounted upside-down where after the strings do through the neck you thread them on the UNDERSIDE of the headstock, and the gears are on the top of the headstock. Could be cool?

And since the strings go THROUGH the neck they'll be mounted strongly and therefore no chance of wood breaking, etc.

Chris

PS: Maybe cause neck instability at the headstock joint... will probably NEED a nice big volute!

[SamIAmUBUF]

exactly, so use an ebony fingerboard and use a graphtechnut. Tada, black with black, and since it'll be flush, you'll barely notice it.

Chris

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I just have to find someone who can magically turn my rosewood fretboard into ebony

[SamIAmUBUF]

I've got it!! It's genious, however, in order to do this you'll have to like headless guitars, and those rear mounted tuning bridges.

What you could do is after the zero fret make the strings go down holes through the neck. Ie: to string it you'd stick the string up through th neck, and then the tuners would be behind the bridge like on a steinberger or that one BC Rich Bich model.

OR you could use a normal bridge and normal EVERYTHING, but have the strings go down through the neck after the zero fret again.  But with this idea you still have a headstock but with the tuners mounted upside-down where after the strings do through the neck you thread them on the UNDERSIDE of the headstock, and the gears are on the top of the headstock. Could be cool?

And since the strings go THROUGH the neck they'll be mounted strongly and therefore no chance of wood breaking, etc.

Chris

PS: Maybe cause neck instability at the headstock joint... will probably NEED a nice big volute!

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I'm going with a TOM style bridge and string-through-body mounting, so your second option sounds ridiculously cool. too bad the string spacing at the neck is too tight to use ferrules.

You, sir, are brilliant