Cocobolo Finish

[Dust N' Bones]

Now I know cocobolo is a difficult wood to finish. But unfourtunatly that's all I know. Because that seems to be all anyone ever says about cocobolo. So, how does one go about solving this delema? I'm thinking of going with a high gloss polyester finish as seen on the alembic Tribute. But what I'd really like is a translucent emerald green stain like This bad boy. But I hate to cover up such a beautiful wood as cocobolo with an artificial color that probablly won't even show up the right color because of the wood's natural redish color. And it might be too difficult. I've never seen a cocobolo guitar with anything but a clear gloss finish so maybe it's just impossible. Really, the finish is what I'm most worried about with building a guitar.

Oh, and yeah, I used the search feature.

[bassman]

"But what I'd really like is a translucent emerald green stain like This bad boy."

Then get some flamed maple and stain away, really. I have only used coco on my fingerboards so far, no prolems with an oil finish there. As with glueing oily woods a thorough wipe down of something like alcohol or naptha will make adhesion and finishing easier. Others here have more experience finishing cocobolo- hopefully they will chime in. I have some really beautiful coco that I have been eyeing for use the past few months (for a top), but it is line behind some other sweet "stash" wood.

[mdw3332]

Boy, I don't think I would want to color it. At one time, Drak mentioned that he had some tips on finishing Cocobola. Drak, you listening? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Here is the piece I have:

[Dust N' Bones]

Then get some flamed maple and stain away, really.

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Well, I really like the grain pattern of cocobolo and the effect it has on the sound. I just had that picture as a reference for what kind of paint I'm looking for.

By the way, Where do you all get these sweet woods? Exoticwoods.com? That's what I'm planning to use. Only place I've found that sells both cocobolo and Korina

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Ditto.

[erikbojerik]

Because of the oily nature of coco, it will probably not take a stain worth a darn. And yes, there's no way you'll be able to lighten it up to make any kind of stain look good. Coco's good enough just by itself.

[ryanb]

I can't imagine why you would want to put green over cocobolo (I like the green, but not in this case). I don't think you would get good results with green (or most any other color) over cocobolo anyway.

The wood has a lot of natural oil in it that creates problems with a lot of finishes. You need to start by using acetone (or maybe naptha) to wipe down the wood and remove the surface oil before trying to put a finish on it. If you let it sit long, more oil will leech out and the surface will get oily again.

A straight oil finish will probably work well as long as you don't try to cover it with anything. It may take a long time to cure hard. Otherwise, stay completely away from anything oil-based, as it just adds to the problem. Something like polyurethane can harden on the surface, trapping oil underneath. The result is soft, and is likely to come off in sheets later.

The best results I have heard of are based on alcohol-based products. If you want to do staining, I would try alcohol-based dyes. Shellac ought to work pretty well, and may be a good enough sealer to then cover with another finish.

Strangely enough, one product that does work really well on cocobolo is the water-based Polycrylic product. However, I'm not sure I would use that for a guitar finish. (I have used this on cocobolo for other things, but not a guitar body).

The 2-part urethanes might work, but I can't spray them, so I don't know.

Note that it depends a lot on your piece of wood too. Some cocobolo can be finished with no problems or special techniques. Other pieces are so full of oil you can't do anything but make a mess. All you can do is try some tests and see what works for you. Good luck.

[erikbojerik]

PM Drak about finishing coco....he has quite a story.

[gripper]

Man, I would so not cover the cocobola! I don't know what flavor guitar you are building but my uncle is building a coco topped Tele with black binding that is just amazing! The contrast of those browns with the black is just AWESOME! He does not use pickgaurds so the whole thing shows through. His matching of the two top pieces looked pretty lame until it was flipped and put the bridge right at the center of the eyeball looking part. I am trying to talk him into a black neck but he hates solid colors. Maybe you are more modern than him. Rock, rock and also rock!

[Drak]

The deal w/ Coco-Bolo is that you have to use a finish that does not melt into the previous coat, so regular lacquer and shellac are out.

The oils will creep up into each new coat and make the guitar so dark by the time you're done you can barely see the wood anymore.

And even if you're using the correct finish, you have to shoot 1, maybe 2 coats max at first, stop and let them completely dry before adding more coats, thus trapping and locking the oils into a very thin coat that will not offend or darken.

You can tell if you did it right, as you're levelling the finish, it better come up as white powder when sanding. If you get yellow-ish powder, you're getting oils up into the finish.

[gripper]

Drak got me back to the original question that I totally forgot about. The finish my uncle is using is that KTM-9 water stuff thinned with alcohol to about water. He shoots the back and sides with like 5 coats and the top with two and quits. He has a LOT more patience than me. I think he has shot it like three times in the last month and I am like lets finish it and put it together. My time in this town where he lives is limited because all my job interviews will take me to the west coast, if I get the job, and I want to see it done before I leave. I think he is doing it just to make me stay here a while longer and sweep the floors in his shop and change oil in his trucks. Rock without him!

[javacody]

This is off topic, but maybe he's doing it because he's your grandfather, he cares about you, and he will miss you?

[erikbojerik]

Patience grasshopper...you can go from lumber to a guitar "in the white" (all sanded but no finish) in just a few days, but the finishing & buffing process can take months. Don't fool yourself into thinking "It's almost done, all I have left is the finishing!" because in reality, you're not almost done, you've got a long way to go.

[Drak]

Yup. Typical turnaround time for my guitars is about a year, and I can have a body 95% done from raw wood in one or two day's time.

[Dust N' Bones]

Yeah, I was afraid of that. Well, thankyou everybody. This has been quite helpful. All I gotta do now is figure out how to do some fancy pants clear glossy finish.

regular lacquer and shellac are out.

So, an alcohol or poly based product would work fine?

If you get yellow-ish powder, you're getting oils up into the finish.

And to fix this problem I need to let the finish dry longer or spray it on thicker?

And to do such a finish would I need any fancy spraying equipment?

Edited November 1, 2005 by Dust N' Bones

[Mattia]

What seems to be popular among the acoustic crowd (who use a lot more cocobolo than electric builders do, with more regularity) is an epoxy pore fill/sealer combo. Z-Poxy finishing resin is particularly popular, and I've got some System 3 stuff from LMI that I'll be test driving eventually. That should seal it off good 'n well. There are special 'rosewood sealer' products out there to seal off particularly oily woods, though I've never used any.

This said, I've seen perfectly lovely, successful shellac/french polish jobs over Cocobolo, so it seems not all pieces are created equal, and not all pieces are impossible to finish. Ditto on the glue; I've seen far more success stories about simply planing and gluing with titebond than horror stories about glues not adhering properly.