Intonation

[boogiewoogieman]

I am new here and not sure if this is the right part to post this but here goes. I know how to set intonation and no matter what I can't get some stings properly intonated. it is a les paul copy with so the bridge is the same. The string/s are sharp on the tuner and I put the bridge saddle as far back as posible. any ideas why.

Edited November 15, 2005 by boogiewoogieman

[deadmike]

im not that knowledgable about these things so im just brainstorming here because im intrested. could the saddle bridge be in the right place?

i know thats a silly thing to ask... but if it was mounted too far forward your scale length would be all to hell and you wouldnt get it intonated. an easy thing to check anyway.

[marksound]

Which strings can't you intonate? Are they sharp or flat? Will turning the saddles around to face the opposite direction give you enough extra adjustment to make the difference?

All things being equal, they're usually not. A "copy" almost always has parts that look the same but are inferior in design, materials, construction, etc. Most times these parts can be made to function properly, but sometimes not. Depends on what you have and how much time and energy you want to spend on it.

[boogiewoogieman]

Which strings can't you intonate? Are they sharp or flat? Will turning the saddles around to face the opposite direction give you enough extra adjustment to make the difference?

All things being equal, they're usually not. A "copy" almost always has parts that look the same but are inferior in design, materials, construction, etc. Most times these parts can be made to function properly, but sometimes not. Depends on what you have and how much time and energy you want to spend on it.

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sharp I think the strins are d or g and b can't remember. I have a jay tursor les paul copy I think it is a good copy with decent hardware it'll do untill I get a real les paul. Do you mean turn the problem string saddles around take em off the intonation screws and flip em around?

[n8rofwyo]

Without speaking for Marksound...Yes, that's the idea. You are basically moving the bridge back - at least for the specific strings you are having problems intonating.

Never ceases to amaze me how such minute discrepencies can produce such noticeable differences.

Nate Robinson

EDIT: Welcome to the forum!

[Mickguard]

sharp I think the strins are d or g and b can't remember. I have a jay tursor les paul copy I think it is a good copy with decent hardware it'll do untill I get a real  les paul. Do you mean turn the problem string saddles around take em off the intonation screws and flip em around?

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Jay Tursers have a pretty good reputation, they're built in series and by CNC-driven machines so I find it a little difficult to believe they screwed up the bridge placement on just one guitar.

Would you mind reviewing your method for setting your intonation?

Before people go flipping things around and changing things, I just like to make sure they know what they're talking about in the first place.

Had a buddy once, called me over to fix his computer because his soundcard wasn't working...he'd already spent two hours on the phone with tech support, and they couldn't figure it out either.

Took me two seconds--he'd forgotten to plug in the damned speakers!

[Guitarfrenzy]

Idch has a point. What method are you using to intonate? I hope your not using the harmonic 12th fret method, because it's not accurate at all. Basically you should tune the string open, example B string, next press down the 12th fret and check your tuner to see if your B note is in tune. If it's flat compared to the open string, then move the saddle forward toward the neck. If it's sharp compared to the open string, move the saddle back away from the neck. Each time you move or adjust the saddle, you'll have to retune the open string because it won't still be proper pitch. Repeat this process until they are both in tune, open and 12th fret.

There are other methods used to intonate, and I will go into it in detail if you'd like, but it's unconventional and usually used with the Buzz Feiten modded guitars.

[boogiewoogieman]

Idch has a point.  What method are you using to intonate?  I hope your not using the harmonic 12th fret method, because it's not accurate at all.  Basically you should tune the string open, example B string, next press down the 12th fret and check your tuner to see if your B note is in tune.  If it's flat compared to the open string, then move the saddle forward toward the neck.  If it's sharp compared to the open string, move the saddle back away from the neck.  Each time you move or adjust the saddle, you'll have to retune the open string because it won't still be proper pitch. Repeat this process until they are both in tune, open and 12th fret. 

There are other methods used to intonate, and I will go into it in detail if you'd like, but it's unconventional and usually used with the Buzz Feiten modded guitars.

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I am using 12th fret method fretted not harmonic with a tuner

[Guitarfrenzy]

I am using 12th fret method fretted not harmonic with a tuner

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Ok at least we know that your using the best way of intonating. It could be a lot of things. The next thing I would question is what kind of tuner are you using to make such a delicate procedure? If it's a real real cheap one, then that could also be your problem. Did you ever get the 12th fret in tune compared to the open note on the problem string? If not it's still possible that the bridge isn't where it should be.

[boogiewoogieman]

I am using 12th fret method fretted not harmonic with a tuner

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Ok at least we know that your using the best way of intonating. It could be a lot of things. The next thing I would question is what kind of tuner are you using to make such a delicate procedure? If it's a real real cheap one, then that could also be your problem. Did you ever get the 12th fret in tune compared to the open note on the problem string? If not it's still possible that the bridge isn't where it should be.

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Cort e205 but the same thing happens when I use the built in tuner on my Korg Pandora PX4D multi effects too.

[Guitarfrenzy]

I am using 12th fret method fretted not harmonic with a tuner

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Ok at least we know that your using the best way of intonating. It could be a lot of things. The next thing I would question is what kind of tuner are you using to make such a delicate procedure? If it's a real real cheap one, then that could also be your problem. Did you ever get the 12th fret in tune compared to the open note on the problem string? If not it's still possible that the bridge isn't where it should be.

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Cort e205 but the same thing happens when I use the built in tuner on my Korg Pandora PX4D multi effects too.

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Did you ever get it to show it was intonated on your tuner? If not, and your tuner is working properly, then you need to know which way the bridge needs to be moved in order for proper intonation. Let's say for example, your trying to intonate the G string, and you have followed the advise and tuned the open string with a tuner, now you press down at the 12th fret to find that your tuner says it's sharp. Well, your going to adjust the saddle on the G string so that you make the scale length longer, example. . move saddle farther away from nut. Now tune the G open string with the tuner again, and check. If it's still sharp, then repeat the process. If you go so far that it won't adjust anymore and it's still not intonating properly, then you have problems. Either do what others have suggested and turn the saddle around for more travel if you can, or look for you having to move the bridge back some.. Yikes..

[Mickguard]

How about your action? If your strings are pretty high, that can set things off too.

And if you tend to press down super hard with your fretting hand --and if the guitar has tall frets, these too can send the guitar sharp. (At least it does for me )

So make sure your guitar is setup properly before intonating.

Another question: is this guitar new, or has this problem suddenly appeared? (If the guitar is new, take it back and have the dealer sort it out for you).

[Guitarfrenzy]

How about your action? If your strings are pretty high, that can set things off too.

And if you tend to press down super hard with your fretting hand --and if the guitar has tall frets, these too can send the guitar sharp. (At least it does for me  )

So make sure your guitar is setup properly before intonating.

Another question: is this guitar new, or has this problem suddenly appeared? (If the guitar is new, take it back and have the dealer sort it out for you).

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Exactly Idch.. I just assume everyone knows how to setup the guitar first.. lol I shouldn't assume that though. So here is a basic setup that I just copied and pasted for you here, from a previous post I made.

1. Using a long straightedge and feeler guages, adjust the neck so that you have a relief that's in a workable range. You can check the relief by sliding a feeler guage between the bottom of the straightedge and top of the 9th fret (or whichever fret has the gap to the bottom of straightedge). I personally like a relief of .006" , but anything from .000" to .012" is good, as you can see I just split the difference.. lol Adjust the truss rod until you have the relief your wanting.

2. After the relief has been adjusted, you can capo the first fret to eliminate it from the equation for setting up your action. Using a 6" steel ruler you can adjust the bridge so that you have 4/64" (1/16") action at the 17th fret on each string. You can lower them later if you want it lower, but this is a great starting point.

3. Take the capo off the first fret and check for proper nut slotting. You can measure the distance between the first fret and bottom of string with feeler guages. Make sure it's not too low on any.. under .006" or too high for the bigger strings, over .020". You can also use another method that works fairly good. Press the string down at the 3rd fret and if the string touches the first fret it's slot it probably too low.

Also I had a weird problem before where I couldn't get a string to intonate properly, I tried everything, but nothing worked. I decided to change the strings on it, and vola, it intonated perfect after that. I looked at the string and noticed that in the middle, it had a small kink that was causing the problems. I'm not saying that is your problem, but it could be.

[Stickmangumby]

Are they new strings? If not, they should be.

[boogiewoogieman]

I am using 12th fret method fretted not harmonic with a tuner

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Ok at least we know that your using the best way of intonating. It could be a lot of things. The next thing I would question is what kind of tuner are you using to make such a delicate procedure? If it's a real real cheap one, then that could also be your problem. Did you ever get the 12th fret in tune compared to the open note on the problem string? If not it's still possible that the bridge isn't where it should be.

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Cort e205 but the same thing happens when I use the built in tuner on my Korg Pandora PX4D multi effects too.

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Did you ever get it to show it was intonated on your tuner? If not, and your tuner is working properly, then you need to know which way the bridge needs to be moved in order for proper intonation. Let's say for example, your trying to intonate the G string, and you have followed the advise and tuned the open string with a tuner, now you press down at the 12th fret to find that your tuner says it's sharp. Well, your going to adjust the saddle on the G string so that you make the scale length longer, example. . move saddle farther away from nut. Now tune the G open string with the tuner again, and check. If it's still sharp, then repeat the process. If you go so far that it won't adjust anymore and it's still not intonating properly, then you have problems. Either do what others have suggested and turn the saddle around for more travel if you can, or look for you having to move the bridge back some.. Yikes..

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yes all the other strings are intonated but I think the strings are little old they are about 2 or 3 weeks old.

[Stickmangumby]

How much have you been playing in the last two or three weeks? Are there any kinks in the strings or wear on the windings? If I were you I'd just wait until you put new strings on to set the intonation, it saves a lot of time and frustration.