Mickguard Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 I just came across this cool little Feedbacker idea. Seems pretty straightforward and easy enough to achieve, even for an electronic no-nothing such as myself. Anyone have any thoughts? I have one of those little mini guitar amps I never use ---I should be able to gut that for parts, right? Man, if I can get this to work, I'll build an entire guitar just to use it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 (edited) I just came across this cool little Feedbacker idea. Seems pretty straightforward and easy enough to achieve, even for an electronic no-nothing such as myself. Anyone have any thoughts? I have one of those little mini guitar amps I never use ---I should be able to gut that for parts, right? Man, if I can get this to work, I'll build an entire guitar just to use it! Probably uses quite a bit more power than an electromagnetic sustainer. It's bigger, too, meaning more stuff to lug around and hook up. On the upside, it's simpler to make (at least the driver part). I believe pete mentioned trying something like this recently in the sustainer thread. I also tried this experiment many years ago, and it worked. I attached the driver to the headstock ala the Sustainiac model C. Honestly, I think the electromagnetic driver is a much cleaner solution, but this is certainly a fun experiment that's easy to try. No need to build all those Anderton circuits to start with. Just split your signal to your main amp and a cheap 10-15W practice amp. Hook the output from the practice amp to your driver and clamp it to the headstock. It should work, and you'll definitely feel the vibrations, which is sorta neat. You can play around with the distortion settings on the practice amp until you get something you like... the compressor is pretty much optional, especially with a lot of distortion. Edited March 30, 2006 by fookgub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Yes...this was linked and discussed on the Sustainer Thread and I worked on it quite a bit... I really must do something about that monster thread. It's called "Sustainer Ideas" because it discusses all manner of sutaining feedback devices from sustainer to ebows to things like this... Sustainiac describe their version as an "Acoustic Sustainer"...the Model C. They use a transducer that monts on the headstock and a floor mounted amp (oversized stompbox) to run it. The "transducer" is basically this thing...a speaker without a cone that vibrates with such force as to vibrate the whole guitar in sympathy with the signal, resulting in vibration of the strings, and thus infinite sustain. The tranducer is mounted on the headstock for a few reasons...it makes it easy to install (just clip/screw it on), it provides maximum distance from the pickup to avoid EMI, and the neck is easier to vibrate, adds leverage to the device and has the strings attached to it aiding in coupling to the parts you ultimately want to vibrate, the strings! Unfortunately, you also need a mains powered amp on the floor, a large and weighty box on the headstock and a signal lead running to the head of the guitar...not pretty. Now all that stuff in that linked rack is mostly effects...they are not part of the feedbacker. The feedbacker bit is just the "guts from a battery powered guitar amp". This drives the little onboard speaker on the guitar. The modified speaker is like the sustainiac transducer...he has cut off the cone and added a coin for weight (adds to vibration by adding mass and helps prevent the speaker coil burning out). This is also meant to silence it a little...no cone, not moving air. So...fairly crude but worth a go...so... I spent a lot of time mucking about with this idea...so here are some experiences... You need essentially the same circuitry as I have for the DIY sustainer...a small amp. The sustainer only puts out about 0.5 of a watt...a 5-10-15watt practice amp would be even better, but not if mounted on the guitar body...you need some distance...and a bigger speaker that can handle that kind of power...for experimental purpose junk a computer speaker set... Cutting down the speaker is tricky...it is so easy to cut the fine wires...dont try and separate them from the cones...just cut around them and leave the paper with the wires on. Trust me, they are super thin and impossible to fix. It will not be silent but create a fairly loud buzzing sound...as you might expect...but will vibrate, which is the point. So...I did this many times and mounted it in many places on the body. I had thought that I could devise something that would vibrate the trem on my strat and hence the strings. I even had it mounted to the springs in there, kind of wedged in...but the speaker's coil gives off EMI that will directly interfere with the pickups above...hmmm For a body mount I found a small speaker firmly pushed onto the face of the guitar with the cone on (not cut or weighted) just below and behind the bridge had the best results...but not great! No high string sustain, inconsistant and made a lot of noise so had to play reasonably loud to overcome the sound coming off of the guitar. The mounting on the headstock was a little better...more power would have made it much better. For a sense of the effect though...you can do it easily. I heard about this studio trick from the Hellecasters John Jorgonson on the track "like father, like son" (errr i think it's called)...when you want the infinite sustain...push your headstock against the speaker baffle of your amp and the vibrations will be transferred directly to the neck and vibrate the guitar, so... And no cost...may need to remove the grill though! In the end, I gave up! You do need a fair amount of power to shake the whole guitar...that means off-board amplification and putting the "transducer" well away...like the end of the neck...from the pickups. Probably mains power, extra leads to the guitar (if not the headstock itself) and the parts cost more and were more difficult than the electromagnetic sustainers I was working on at the same time (the hex drivers). Still, I gave it a good shot, and there may well be some more work to investigate there...even a bit more vibration on the guitar is going to help push it into jimi feedback with enough distortion, compression and volume...you don't need a sustainer at all, as Jimi showed. That is why I try and demonstrate my DIY sustainer clean. The "electromagnetic" sustainer...working directly on the strings is a better solution in many ways. It is completely silent for one thing. It uses it's energy to vibrate only the strings, not the whole guitar as well, so needs less power, for another. Basically...the classic "sustainer" and the elegant Ebow, uses a coil just like in a speaker...but instead of vibrating a cone to move air...it vibrates the strings via a magnetic field. The strings become the speakers cone if you like. Because of this it uses less power, which means it can get closer (but not too close) to the pickups and run from a battery on the guitar...no extra leads and stuff, the thing is well out of the way. Anyway...that's my experience with the "smart feedbacker" and I know others have vibrated the headstock to good effect. I quite like the idea of the whole guitar shaking, but the noise of having a big loud buzzer on my guitar for very little effect in comparison, was driving me crazy...gave it a good shot though... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 You know, it would be nice if this was easy. Something along the lines of: "take a magnet, hold above a pickup, strings will vibrate. I was playing around with my little amp this evening, it definitely works...didn't try the headstock thing, yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 it works and you can rip apart a dano mini an mount the hoel thing in the guitar. but I have high hopes for psw's sustainer as it is havcing played the fernades ones its does make things a bit easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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