vaxination Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 below is a picture of 12 string bridge plate that i am using to build a solid body 12 string guitar for someone. the client gave me the bridge that he wants to use. it will be the first 12 string electric for me. anyway, it has 6 string thru holes (the other 6 are top loaded). if you notice in the picture, the holes are not straight across. while it seems great for intonation locations, it doesn't look that great. i have to admit that i am a real freak about making nice straight string thru holes on the backside of an axe. i spoke with the client and he said it would be alright if the holes in the back are staggered, however, i am having a hard time doing it (**** retentive - help dr phil!). i want to exhaust all my options first. i had a couple ideas like drill the holes a bit oversized on the top about 1" down and then drill the holes in the back straight. 1" or so should give the strings enough room to adjust to the the straight-across string ferrules. i just don't know if will put too much pressure on the strings against the bridge holes when the strings angle towards the ferrules, causing them to break. the other option i thought of was making the holes on the back 3x3 with each set of 3 holes on a slight diagonal, trying to match the staggered angle of the bridge holes as closely as possible. this may give the strings a smaller angle for line up. ok, that was probably clear as mud, but the bottom line is that the staggered holes bug me and i am open of suggestions. here is the bridge plate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 If someone is paying you to build them a guitar, it shouldn't matter whether something bugs you or not, it's all about what THEY want. You always want to shift as much liability onto the customer as possible, and away from yourself, a lot of people don't understand this concept. Make HIM take responsibility for HIS decision to use this bridge. This is not copping out or being shallow, it is a very solid and ethical business practice, and if you don't learn it, you will never have a business for long. You ask the guy what he wants, and you do it. If he doesn't like it, it's his bad luck. If you put YOUR ideas into it and he doesn't like it, it's YOUR bad luck, and possibly YOUR not getting paid either. If you CAN'T do what he wants due to inexperience with that task or whatever, then be HONEST with him and tell him that up front and let him make the decision where to go from there. His call, his decision, his liability even if he doesn't like it. It's called business. You can offer all the advice and opinions you want, but in the END, it has to be the customer's wishes, not what you want or don't want to do, unless he has given you up front the right to do that and you will be paid reguardless of whether he likes it or not. It is sometimes a fine line to draw knowing how much advice to offer, and there definitely IS a line there. Too much advice can equal too much liability on your part, and if something goes south, then YOU'RE going to be eating something (usually profits, or crow, or sometimes both). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaxination Posted June 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 i was hoping for more of a technical answer than a business lecture. my client knows that i would like to make the ferrules line up nicely and is okay if i can find a solution for it. if not, he is fine with it being staggered. since he is fine either way, i don't think it is a problem if i want to try. btw, i found a great compromise and both client and builder (me) are way happy. making guitars is not my main source of income so i don't feel the great string ferrule problem will be putting my livelihood in any peril. that said, i understand what you mean about having the client assuming responsibilities and agree with you in principle. i am a software developer and i build to customer specs. as a professional, i may make suggestions based upon experience so that my clients can make informed decisions. in the end, however, i program the application as they request and they assume responsibility for its final functionality. so this is concept is not foreign to me. so can we get back to guitar building discussions now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth guitars Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Can you redrill the second one from the right and have 3 staggered pairs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaxination Posted June 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 excellent idea! however, i came up with a solution that was acceptable to the client. i like your idea better, though, and i wish i had implemented it instead! hey doug, its me... ur customer in hawaii! btw, i should mention that mammoth provides excellent quality blanks and tops. living in hawaii where we don't have any selection in tone wood or tops (except koa, of course), i have to rely on mainland vendors to select my wood for me. while other vendors quality in wood have been hit & miss, mammoth guitars has always provided me with excellent quality tone woods and tops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 On these forums, you never know who you're talking to, and more typically than not, some 17 year old would be asking that question, so business lecture over and to you also! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Ask your client if it's okay to substitute that plate for one of these. --really, for the $37 it costs, you'll save bundles in terms of persnicketyness. Not only that, the saddles lock. Hmm...that gives me an idea...think I might look into converting my Rocket 350 to a 12-string... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Actually mickguard the stew-mac bridge is just the same, i have one of them and it also has staggered holes. I comtemplated doing something about it too but just left it as it was in the end, what i was going to do was install a flat single coil shaped peice of brass on the back of the guitar that surrounded all six holes, the holes still wouldnt be in line but i think it would look more correct than the six individual ferrules being staggered. I am not sure about drilling a new hole in the base plate because they have been staggered for a reason, i dont think there is as much intonation adjustment on these bridges compared to the six string version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth guitars Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Thanks for the compliments vaxination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Actually mickguard the stew-mac bridge is just the same, i have one of them and it also has staggered holes. So if it's supposed to be that way, shouldn't that cure the ol' analitis? Kind of strange that they'd do it that way though. Another option is to modify the string through holes to be top loading, like this one. That way you don't have to worry about the having the ferrules lined up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaxination Posted June 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 i actually did something similar to wezv's suggestion (although i still like mammoth's - he's given me great advice before too). anyway, i drilled the staggered holes to match the bridge, however, i routed a recess around the holes in the back to install an access plate. it was acceptable to the client and it covered the funny looking holes. btw, my client works part time in a guitar store and i knew the axe would be under the scrutiny of other GAS addicts so i wanted the axe to present itself well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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