Marco Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) Hello guys, I have a simple question... I want to lower the action of my acoustic guitar (Epiphone EJ-300 Jumbo) but I don't know how to do it... Is it better to take away the saddle and to remove the excess part of its lower side or is it better to file the slots in which the strings run??? I hope you can help. Thank you!!! Edited November 3, 2006 by Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 if the strings are low enough at the nut then leave the slots alone. The most common problem is at the bridge which should be quite simple on that guitar...basically removing some of the material under the saddle as you rightly suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doeringer Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 At the risk of sounding too obvious... Make sure the neck is straight first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 I've checked it for straightness and warpage and it's ok... Tonight I'm going to remove the material under the saddle... Let's hope not to cause a mess!!! Thanks buddies! I hope I could help you in the future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 just a thought...maybe check that you can get a replacement saddle first, just in case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 I don't know how familiar you are with making these adjustments, so forgive me if I am saying something obvious to you. Before you modify that saddle measure it with a pair of calipers and note where it is before you modify it. Bottom of the saddle is the way to go for height adjustment. Keep in mind when you drop the height it will effect the string angle over the saddle. This will reduce the torque and may alter the way the top is holding the bridge(which could effect your action more than the simple change in saddle height). A slighter angle is also going to cut the volume a bit. If you have go too low you may need to re-set the neck instead of dropping the saddle height too low. I am assuming you have already looked at the string nut, frets, neck relief, condition of the soundboard before making a saddle adjustment. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 just a thought...maybe check that you can get a replacement saddle first, just in case That sounds like a good idea!!! I don't know how familiar you are with making these adjustments, so forgive me if I am saying something obvious to you. Don't worry, I'm here to learn... Before you modify that saddle measure it with a pair of calipers and note where it is before you modify it. Bottom of the saddle is the way to go for height adjustment. Keep in mind when you drop the height it will effect the string angle over the saddle. This will reduce the torque and may alter the way the top is holding the bridge(which could effect your action more than the simple change in saddle height). A slighter angle is also going to cut the volume a bit. If you have go too low you may need to re-set the neck instead of dropping the saddle height too low. I am assuming you have already looked at the string nut, frets, neck relief, condition of the soundboard before making a saddle adjustment. I did'n think of such consequences... I just wanted to lower a little the height of the saddle, already knowing that I would have lost some volume but I did'nt realize that would involve such big changes... What do you suggest? Should I go to a luthier? Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 I have no idea how much you are going to remove, or why the action is high . This makes it really hard to give good advise(thus some blanket warnings). It may be a very slight adjustment that is fine. It may be that the high action is the result of changes in the soundboard. It may be that the bridge has been modified already and there may not be any room to drop it more without leaving you with a very low break angle at the nut. When the saddle has been dropped as low as is reasonable the next step is to re-set the neck, and get the saddle height back up where it should be. Inspecting the soundboard and guitar can clue you into some of these possible changes. If it is a brand spankin new production guitar. It may be that it was left a tad high by the manufacturer for extra clearance. If the guitar is important to you it may be better to take it to a Professional. If you don't mind taking it out of commision for a bit, and doing a little trial and error/learning . Then you could give it a shot. You can't do much damage lowering a saddle(as long as you can reproduce the original). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted November 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Thanks guys... I'll try to post a picture to show how high is the action now and what I want to achieve... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted November 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Here it is... I'd like to fix the dent in the top and the chip on the headstock, what would you suggest??? Thanks Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 (edited) You already have very low string break angle on that saddle. Lowering it any more will cause problems for sure. You should read these two articles. link 1 link 2 Edited November 6, 2006 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Godin is right. That looks like the saddle has been lowered too far already. Ultimately the solution here would be to re-set the neck and adjust the neck angle. That would also allow you to replace the low saddle and get your break angle up closer to where it should be. The break angle really makes a difference in how well energy is transfered to the soundboard. As it is now, and based on your measurement. You would be looking to drop the saddle around 1/16-3/32" and you just don't have any room to drop. I would not recommend attempting a re-set unless you have experience. You should take it to a professional and get a quote. Then you will have to evaluate whether or not it is worth the cost. You could also have them quote you for the chip repair. Good luck! Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted November 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 You already have very low string break angle on that saddle. Lowering it any more will cause problems for sure. You should read these two articles. link 1 link 2 Thanks! Godin is right. That looks like the saddle has been lowered too far already. Ultimately the solution here would be to re-set the neck and adjust the neck angle. I bought it new in 1995 and have never lowered the saddle... I would not recommend attempting a re-set unless you have experience. You should take it to a professional and get a quote. Then you will have to evaluate whether or not it is worth the cost. You could also have them quote you for the chip repair. Good luck! I've no experience at all so I think I'll go to a professional... Thanks everybody!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 "I bought it new in 1995 and have never lowered the saddle... " Seriously Maybe it is just the picture? The strings look as though they have almost no break angle over that saddle. Look at the guitar and tell me how many degrees of angle you would say you have(just in case we are not seeing this clearly). Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted November 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) Maybe it is just the picture? That's not the picture... The lower E and the Hi E are almost "flat"... I've never noticed it... Edited November 7, 2006 by Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Sounds like they didn't set the neck properly at the factory and had to lower the saddle way to much to make it playable, making any further lowering of the saddle impossiable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Is that nut plastic? Just curious I would say it is probably just a poor factory fit. They probably had an issue with the neck angle, and tried to comp as much as possible, or the guitar shop that sold it tried to bring the action down. I can't imagine the guitar would be designed to be produced with a saddle that low. That is the tuff part about guitars in that price range. You have to really watch what you buy. If you find a good one they are a bargain for sure, but the quality check is not there and the quick fix to get a guitar out the door can allow for some poor finds. I suspect a re-set and new nut may be cost prohibitive(that is truly up to you). You should go take a look at more of these models at the store you bought it from and see how they compair. Also look at some med. to higher priced acoustics and take note of how the bridge is set up(break angle, height and such). This should give you a picture of what you are looking for. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted November 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Yes that's plastic... The problem is that I bought it when I was a kid, not knowing too much of acoustic guitars... Except for the high action is a good one, the problem now is whether to fix it or not... At the moment I don't know what to do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted November 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Isn't it possible to lower the strings by filing some grooves in the pin holes in order to give a improved break angle to the strings on the saddle? It's very difficult to explain but if you take a look at this month's Guitar and Bass magazine (Under saddle pick-ups) you can understand what I'm saying... But now I discovered another issue... Take a look: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Isn't it possible to lower the strings by filing some grooves in the pin holes in order to give a improved break angle to the strings on the saddle? Yes, You can probably get a better angle on the strings by working on the slots. It looks like you will get a little help by doing that. It will not lower the strings of course as you would still have to drop the saddle, and I suspect you are going to give back any gains you make on the break angle and then some by dropping it a little. You may want to look over the guitar and bracing in the box to see if you have something loosening up or deforming. The strings pull on an acoustic wants to try to collapse the body between the neck and bridge, as well as lift or deform the soundboard behind the bridge. If bracing becomes loose or a glue joint starts to seperate it can allow this collapse to progress. Natural fatigue is why adjustments are made to the saddle, and eventually neck re-sets are required. If there is actually something seperating it would be good to catch it before it becomes a bigger problem. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted November 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Thanks for you explanation! Should I need to fix it (neck angle, bracing an so on) , I'll have to strip the entire guitar? It sounds very expensive... Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Thanks for you explanation! Should I need to fix it (neck angle, bracing an so on) , I'll have to strip the entire guitar? It sounds very expensive... Cheers! No.... Just look it over closely and see if you can see anything happening . You may have nothing going on at all that is obvious, but take a close look and see what you can see. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted November 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Thanks Rich, I've taken a close look and took some pictures inside the sound hole, everything seems right... I'll keep it that way and see what will happen. Meanwhile I'm looking for a replacement, maybe a dreadnought. What can I buy within 800 bucks? I've seen the Epiphone Hummingbird, is it a good guitar? Ciao! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 (edited) In that price range some guitars can be great while another guitar (the same model) is crap. So check it out really good before you buy. In that price range the lower-end larrviees have always impressed me, ditto with breedlove. Edited November 9, 2006 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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