Neck Angle Problem Mybe Need Shim?

[Devon8822]

Hey I have repaired alot of guitars latekly. Some of them have this problem and I dont knwo what to do. Its like at the frets closest to the body the action is very high. And at the far out frets its very low. It should be low everywhere right? So i have discovered that this guitars neck angles out a bit away from the player. This is causing that problem. you can see it a the enck oiocket how on the body side it goes in deeper than the headstock side. So how do I fix this with a shim?? and what do i do with it exactly?

[coolio49085]

Hey I have repaired alot of guitars latekly. Some of them have this problem and I dont knwo what to do. Its like at the frets closest to the body the action is very high. And at the far out frets its very low. It should be low everywhere right? So i have discovered that this guitars neck angles out a bit away from the player. This is causing that problem. you can see it a the enck oiocket how on the body side it goes in deeper than the headstock side. So how do I fix this with a shim?? and what do i do with it exactly?

There is a tutorial in the tutorial section on shimming necks.

[biliousfrog]

Firstly, are you sure that the action is not due to the truss-rod or saddle height?

Secondly, Is the body carved or does it have a scratchplate?....either can make the neck "look" like it is bowing forward.

Thirdly, just to point out the obvious, strings should be higher off the fretboard at the body end than the nut otherwise the strings would rattle against the frets as they vibrate....or the nut would be so high that fretting would throw out the intonation.

[Mike Navarro]

Firstly, are you sure that the action is not due to the truss-rod or saddle height?

Secondly, Is the body carved or does it have a scratchplate?....either can make the neck "look" like it is bowing forward.

Thirdly, just to point out the obvious, strings should be higher off the fretboard at the body end than the nut otherwise the strings would rattle against the frets as they vibrate....or the nut would be so high that fretting would throw out the intonation.

Theres some basics imperative in the action of a instrument, first is the adjust of the trus rod, you need for a acurate adjust a notch rule, the one you can touch the fretboard without touch the frets (you can do it your self with a regular rule, a scale rule and a bandsaw), then a perfect straight rule, for this kind of precision jog don't use the basic way by press both extreme of the string in the fretboard to verify the neck adjust, this way is not for diagnosis, just for basic adjust when the neck is in perfect conditions, then, you need a short straight edge around 14 inches. First adjust the truss rod using the fast way of pressing the strings, then, take a look of the neck the same way you point with a riffle, concentrate in the fret close to the nut and the one in the end of the body, don't look the nut as a reference because nuts normally has a angle and confuse, both frets in the end has to look pararell, if this is not the case, probably we have a twist neck and that is very tricky!, in the same pointing riffle angle, look one side of the fretboard and the the other side, if one of the sides looks straight or bow forward, and the other looks the opposite, you have a twisting problem, and that is something you can't adjust, with the right technique clamping the neck against a metal plate forcing the presure in the contrary direction of the twist, with heat, you can use infrared lamp 150w in the damage area in intervals of 30 minutes and let it cold it by 10 minutes, for 3 hours, then, let it cold for one hour, loose the clamps and let it stand for one hour without clamps, and verify the neck again, if still twist, repeat the proccedure until is traight, sometimes, after you straight the neck requires a fretjob, because like when you straight a bend wire dosn't return exactly in the original possition, probably you need to the little humbs and imperfections in the fret board, something you can do with the frets on. In the case you don't have a twisting problem, then you use the the knotch rule to verify the level condition of the neck, don't over tight the trusrod to get to the position you want, if looks bow, use the shorter straightedge check the neck from the middle of the neck to the body and then to the nut, if one of the half are bend and the other not, then, you need to straight the bend side with heat. If the case is that the guitar is neckset or one piece, with correct way of clamping you can reset the neck backwards, but in this case is the metal plate the one it receive the heat and not the neck directly. My name is Mike Navarro, have 22 years as a luthier, any cuestion, you can write to my web site Guitarzonepr.com and also get a tour inside my shop.

Mike Navarro Guitarzonepr.com

[Devon8822]

Wow, thanks Mike^^^

I think the problem has to do witht he area that the neck joins with the body. I adjust the truss rod so there is the space of a business card in between the 6 fret and the low e string, with the first and last fret fretted. Thats accurate right?

I adjust everything else. So what im saying is that at the upper frets the strings are abnormally far from the fretboard. To fix this would I need to shim it?

[Devon8822]

BUMP!

[Devon8822]

Can Anyone tell me if this problem can be fixed by shimming? The action is to high at the body end of the neck.

[Mickguard]

Can Anyone tell me if this problem can be fixed by shimming? The action is to high at the body end of the neck.

Maybe at this point you could post a photo of the guitar, it's possible someone will spot what's going on with the guitar.

But it doesn't take much effort to try out a shim --you take off the strings, unbolt the neck, slip a piece of a business card in there. Put things back together again. If it fixes the problem, then, well, the problem's fixed.

[Mike Navarro]

Wow, thanks Mike^^^

I think the problem has to do witht he area that the neck joins with the body. I adjust the truss rod so there is the space of a business card in between the 6 fret and the low e string, with the first and last fret fretted. Thats accurate right?

I adjust everything else. So what im saying is that at the upper frets the strings are abnormally far from the fretboard. To fix this would I need to shim it?

Devon, is very hard to say if I don't see the neck, I think neck is the hardest part of the instrument to diagnose, theres a lot of diferents problems the neck can have, using the E string as a perspective tool works only if the neck is in perfect conditions for regular trus rod adjust, but not for a diagnosis, sometimes the the neck is "twist" and in that case if you use the low E string to verify it's goin to look well, but when you try the same way with the high E you will see in that section of the neck is bend, but as I said, it's hard to say if I don't have the neck in my counter to diagnosis. You shoul bring the guitar to you're local luthier, I think you have a problem that only a professional can fix, if you want to experiment, that is another thing. Good luck!!

[Devon8822]

Alright, I will take a picture and heres another description of the problem in the mean time.

I want to get the action lower at the higher frets. when I get the action to a point that I like at the higher frets, the lower frets action is than to low. and when I put the lower frets action to a good spot it makes it to high at the higher frets.

Hopefully you guys can understand that description a little better? I need to some how make the neck flatter so the action can be good all along the fretboard. thanks for you help.

[spazzyone]

your board or neck is not strait/flat or level

or you have i rising toung

[Doeringer]

yes, sounds like your board is not level, have you tried to adjust the truss rod? Have you done much neck work before?

Edited January 8, 2007 by Doeringer

[Mickguard]

yes, sounds like your board is not level, have you tried to adjust the truss rod? Have you done much neck work before?

In his original post he says that 'some' of the guitars he's looked at have this problem. Not just one. Seems unlikely that all those guitars would have the same problem with their neck. So I'm looking at the common denominator...which is Devon...I'm starting to suspect he isn't doing one of the setup steps or he's not doing them in the proper order, or he's not doing one or more properly.

[Doeringer]

Yep, noticed that, I should have said to revisit the entire process instead of dancing around...

[Devon8822]

Oh boy, Ill have some pics up in a day or 2, its my friends guitar.

[Devon8822]

Ill have them on monday or tuesday. In the mean time i have a question about the truss rod that may solve the problem. Most of the instructions i have read for adjusting the truss rod tlel you hat height the string needs to be at the 6th fret when the first and 17th fret are fretted. im thinking that my problem might be with the truss rod? can someone tell me what measurments i can do to check the action after adjusting the truss rod. WHat measurements at other frets like not only the 6th but can i check what it should be down the neck more around 15th fret what should the height be?? thanks

[Mickguard]

Ill have them on monday or tuesday. In the mean time i have a question about the truss rod that may solve the problem. Most of the instructions i have read for adjusting the truss rod tlel you hat height the string needs to be at the 6th fret when the first and 17th fret are fretted. im thinking that my problem might be with the truss rod? can someone tell me what measurments i can do to check the action after adjusting the truss rod. WHat measurements at other frets like not only the 6th but can i check what it should be down the neck more around 15th fret what should the height be?? thanks

Look, just give it up, take it to a pro and let him set it up for you. Ask him if you can hang out and watch what he does, maybe he'll explain it to you. Really, it's going to save you a lot of time doing it that way. And you'll learn more.