MCH Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 I've looking for pickups for a new guitar build. I going to get a pair of humbuckers. After much looking a searching and probably getting more confused, I don't understand the wild variance in prices. A pickup is basically magnets and wires, no electronic parts. The output is the result of magnet strength, wire gauge and number of coils on a bobbin. Now I can understand there may be a variance in output if the windings aren't exact. What is attributed to a bad pickup vs a good pickup? Magnet quality, wire quality or is it the care of the workmanship? Here's the low down. I've been debating between GFS (FAT PAFS); at a very reasonable cost of about $60 for the pair and a set of hand wound boutiques by Jon Moore; his V-59 for the cost of about $160. So I'm really trying to understand if there is a huge difference in sound quality in respect to the difference in cost? thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 (edited) I've looking for pickups for a new guitar build. I going to get a pair of humbuckers. After much looking a searching and probably getting more confused, I don't understand the wild variance in prices. A pickup is basically magnets and wires, no electronic parts. The output is the result of magnet strength, wire gauge and number of coils on a bobbin. Now I can understand there may be a variance in output if the windings aren't exact. What is attributed to a bad pickup vs a good pickup? Magnet quality, wire quality or is it the care of the workmanship? Here's the low down. I've been debating between GFS (FAT PAFS); at a very reasonable cost of about $60 for the pair and a set of hand wound boutiques by Jon Moore; his V-59 for the cost of about $160. So I'm really trying to understand if there is a huge difference in sound quality in respect to the difference in cost? thx There are over 30 partys in a humbucker pickup. There is a picture on my web site ( http://mysticpickups.com/MysticPickups/pictures.html ) Everything contributes to the "tone" a pickup gets. There are a lot of different types of wire and the wind pattern makes a huge difference (how many wraps per turn, scaterwound, etc). Even cheap ones sound good in the right guitar, but "boutique" pickups have had more R&D go into what they sound like. It takes me about 3 hours from start to finish to make a pickup. Even a few hundred turns + or - makes a difference that can be heard. Whether it's potted or not and "how it's potted makes a difference too. Some cars cost over a million dollars and some cost verry little, It's the same thing with pickups, Made by hand one at a time or made on a machine twenty at a time and assembled in China. Edited January 9, 2007 by Mystic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCH Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 (edited) the other thing to keep in mind is thet pickups which are scatterwound do sound better and a machine has a hard time duplicating that. A lot better? maybe yes maybe no, it all depends on the guitar and most of all your ears. I agree that spending a lot of money on pickups is silly, but not all hand-wound pickups are expensive. I think once you go over $140 per pickup you have entered " Hype land" Edited January 6, 2007 by Mystic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unklmickey Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 the other thing to keep in mind is thet pickups which are scatterwound do sound better and a machine has a hard time duplicating that. ... different? yes. better? a matter of opinion. most machine wound pickups are straight wound and a hand-winder has a harder time duplicating that, than scatterwinding. (draw your own conclusions as to why many hand-winders insist scatterwinding is better.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 There really is an electical reason for the preference for scatterwinding...but you are right. Solid state vs Valve amps have similar origins historically. The way pickups were made in the 50's they could not be helped but be scatterwound, and that became a part of the guitar's sound...similarly, it was hard to get a hi-fi sound from tube amps and even hi wattage amps were pushed because of a lack of PA equipment... Hand making anything is going to cost money. There is no reason that a perfectly good pickup can't be made cheaply by machine...you pay a lot to have someone put in the extras and hand build to their own sound. There is a lot of voodoo about pickups however and they should not be seen in isolation...they have to match the guitar, the amp and the music you intend to make with them. I think that far too muc is made of high powered, overwound pickups for instance. I think that lower powered pickups could make for a far superior sound and with the amount of effects and preamplification typically used, there really is no reason not to go down that route. EMG's for instance are popular for their clear articulated sound...they have lower powered magnets and coils but compensate with preamps that easily put out more power than a typical passive... In the end it is a matter of taste and the extent that you can really hear those differences... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 There really is an electical reason for the preference for scatterwinding...but you are right. Solid state vs Valve amps have similar origins historically. The way pickups were made in the 50's they could not be helped but be scatterwound, and that became a part of the guitar's sound...similarly, it was hard to get a hi-fi sound from tube amps and even hi wattage amps were pushed because of a lack of PA equipment... Hand making anything is going to cost money. There is no reason that a perfectly good pickup can't be made cheaply by machine...you pay a lot to have someone put in the extras and hand build to their own sound. There is a lot of voodoo about pickups however and they should not be seen in isolation...they have to match the guitar, the amp and the music you intend to make with them. I think that far too muc is made of high powered, overwound pickups for instance. I think that lower powered pickups could make for a far superior sound and with the amount of effects and preamplification typically used, there really is no reason not to go down that route. EMG's for instance are popular for their clear articulated sound...they have lower powered magnets and coils but compensate with preamps that easily put out more power than a typical passive... In the end it is a matter of taste and the extent that you can really hear those differences... pete Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 99% of the sounds ever recorded on electric guitar have been on bone-stock, mass-produced pickups. Most pros don't give a damn what pickup is in the guitar unless they are KNOWN for a certain sound, like Steve Vai. Even then, most of the tone is still going to be a factor of your fingers, amps, and effects, not the pickups. I personally prefer EMGs in my Strat and DiMarzio PAFs in my Les Paul, but that's merely because I know the quality is going to be there no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Here's a quote from someone who makes custom pickups: I believe a pickup should NOT be thought of in terms of output, but rather of input. The function of a pickup is to sense the string and send as wide of a tone band as possible to your rig. The problem with an over-wound pickup is that the high and low tones fall off while the middle tones become over-emphasized—resulting in a narrower tone band and a "one trick pony" guitar. This drastically limits your tone possibilities. If it is overdrive and heavy mids that you want, you can easily get that from a peddle (sic), when you NEED that tone leaving you free to explore other tones with your guitar. See the website here. I've never tried his pickups, but a lot of people whose opinions I respect have and say they're great. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 A pickup is basically magnets and wires, no electronic parts. The output is the result of magnet strength, wire gauge and number of coils on a bobbin. You nailed the most important factors attributed to output. But a pickups sound isn’t limited to output only. There are so many other factors. I would say that the physical shape of the coil and magnetic field are other main factors that influence the sound. Add to that the different magnets that are electrical conductive magnets or ceramic magnets (differences eddy currents), shielding due to metal covers, a magnetic reflector under the coil (think Telecaster steel base plate) and so on. The main factors affecting a pickups sound would IMO be overall construction (singlecoil or humbucker), strength and shape of the magnetic field, the number of turns of wire on the coil(s) (tall and skinny ala Strat or short and squat ala Tele bridge) and the shape of the coil. If a coil is scatter wound or not isn’t close to being a main factor. The big different between a main pickup maker and a boutique winder is that the custom winder can talk to you about your needs, the sound you would like to achieve, listen to the amp you are using, listen to the guitar that the pickup are going into and even hear you play it. Then he can tailor the sound of the pickup. Adding turns of wire, hand selecting a weaker/stronger magnet, changing the shape of the coil (real custom) and so on. The pickup this maker will deliver is of cause going to be a one-off and most likely hand wound. Most (I’d say all) hand wound pickups are scatter wound. Now why does this custom made, scatter would pickup sound good? It might be that it is scatter wound! But I doubt that more than a few percentage of the sound (as if it was at all possible to measure that way) come from the fact that the pickup is scatter wound. The difference in cost is simply because the big pickup makers have enormous machines that spit out a pickup every 10 seconds or so. A hand wound pickup takes a bit longer. Mine take me like two hours for a complete single coil and up to four hours for a HB with soldered metal covers. Another more interesting question is why GFS charge you 60 and Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio charge like 80 to 100 for a PAF-style HB BTW Mystic: The link to you web page isn’t working. Would you mind help me find it or PM me the address. It would be very interesting to have a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unklmickey Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 ...Another more interesting question is why GFS charge you 60 and Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio charge like 80 to 100 for a PAF-style HB... actually, that would be $60 for a pair of HBs. (or $30 for a pair w/ ceramic magnets from the clearance section.) they're made in China, nothing fancy at all, about the way they are packaged. but, they look good, and work well. great value per $. SD charges what they do..........................because they CAN. as long as people continue to pay what SD wants, they will continue to price them that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCH Posted January 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 SD charges what they do..........................because they CAN. as long as people continue to pay what SD wants, they will continue to price them that way. That is the answer that I expected. And it is in large amounts true. But you have to add that Duncan and the other main manufacturer actually put in a fair deal of R&D that the smaller knock-of companies like GFS more or less steal. And another thing. Have a look at how many varieties GFS offer compared to Duncan. It s some time ago I had a look at GFS but I guess that they carry like three to five different HBs. Duncan has 22 according to their web page. It is costly to make so many versions of the same basic product. You have to stop production every time you change product. That means that your machine doesn’t work 24/7. Expensive machines standing still means high costs. But that is only one side of the coin. The other is exactly like unklmickey says. Duncan CAN charge what they do and people still by their pickups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unklmickey Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 ...It s some time ago I had a look at GFS but I guess that they carry like three to five different HBs.... i'd say it HAS been a while since you looked at them. look again, if for no other reason, but to see how much they've added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Yup, your'e right. I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.