Cherry Wood

[Melcher73]

I have some Cherry around after making some household projects.......(wife won't let me just build guitars, I have to share the wealth)....anyone use this as a tone wood? I have a piece big enough to use as a neck blank, but I was not sure it would hold up like maple.

[blackburncustomguitars]

Hi,

I've used a LOT of cherry to make many guitars. It will work ok as a neck blank but not fretboard. It is fantastic as a body tonewood as well. e-mail me at dlblackburn2@msn.com for some pics of some projects. Good luck!

Peace,

Dave

I have some Cherry around after making some household projects.......(wife won't let me just build guitars, I have to share the wealth)....anyone use this as a tone wood? I have a piece big enough to use as a neck blank, but I was not sure it would hold up like maple.

[Mattia]

Cherry is an excellent wood for necks, even bodies (bit heavy). By all means use it.

[low end fuzz]

if im wrong, im sure i'll be corrected;

but you wont get different tone out of varying woods in the neck; you get them from the body;

'attack' on the other hand is what your gonna get by changing the neck woods; if your getting tone differences from the neck; your not using hard enough wood.

but cherry is awsome in the neck, i saw alembic use it and had to go for it (centre strip) the more it ages the cooler it looks!

and with a b.e. fingerboard it has great 'attack'

[fryovanni]

if im wrong, im sure i'll be corrected;

but you wont get different tone out of varying woods in the neck; you get them from the body;

'attack' on the other hand is what your gonna get by changing the neck woods; if your getting tone differences from the neck; your not using hard enough wood.

but cherry is awsome in the neck, i saw alembic use it and had to go for it (centre strip) the more it ages the cooler it looks!

and with a b.e. fingerboard it has great 'attack'

LEF,

Can you help me understand what you are saying. Define "Tone" and "Attack". Then tell me how hardness of wood effects the guitars sound.

Don't take this as grilling. I want to understand the way you understand these things(I am not looking for a right or wrong). If you can't explain something specifically that is fine just do the best you can to relate how it makes sense to you.

Peace,Rich

[Mattia]

if im wrong, im sure i'll be corrected;

but you wont get different tone out of varying woods in the neck; you get them from the body;

'attack' on the other hand is what your gonna get by changing the neck woods; if your getting tone differences from the neck; your not using hard enough wood.

but cherry is awsome in the neck, i saw alembic use it and had to go for it (centre strip) the more it ages the cooler it looks!

and with a b.e. fingerboard it has great 'attack'

You're wrong

Neck mass (ergo: neck size, shape, properties, wood type) certainly affects tone. Attack is part of 'sound', after all. It's also not limited to any one piece of wood, but also involves strings, technique, body wood, pickups, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Also, 'hard enough'? My favourite neck wood, hands down, is mahogany. Which is probably the softest of the commonly used neck woods. No want for sustain, attack, tone, whatever. It's up to the builder to balance things out.

[westhemann]

i have also made a neck from cherry...i made it a 3 piece.....it is very nice..."snappy" tone.

i would balance it out with a mahogany body....or even basswood...normally i would not reccomend basswood,but the huge focus, treble and mids from the cherry would likely be balanced out by the lack of mids and treble in basswood

mahogany is my first choice though

by the way,i built that guitar probably four years ago,and the neck is still straight

[fryovanni]

if im wrong, im sure i'll be corrected;

but you wont get different tone out of varying woods in the neck; you get them from the body;

'attack' on the other hand is what your gonna get by changing the neck woods; if your getting tone differences from the neck; your not using hard enough wood.

but cherry is awsome in the neck, i saw alembic use it and had to go for it (centre strip) the more it ages the cooler it looks!

and with a b.e. fingerboard it has great 'attack'

You're wrong

Neck mass (ergo: neck size, shape, properties, wood type) certainly affects tone. Attack is part of 'sound', after all. It's also not limited to any one piece of wood, but also involves strings, technique, body wood, pickups, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Also, 'hard enough'? My favourite neck wood, hands down, is mahogany. Which is probably the softest of the commonly used neck woods. No want for sustain, attack, tone, whatever. It's up to the builder to balance things out.

LEF,

If you could still post what your understanding is that would be cool. I suspect there are many people that have understanding similar to what you have, and maybe a little discussion could make things more clear.

Peace,Rich

[low end fuzz]

i find tone to be the warmth or' hum' the woods make when a vibration is rung thru it;

like an acoustic, this is happening inside the box;

the 'definition' of attack is, the speed of which the highest volume is gained;

'which i find' happens in the neck; fast attack is the sound of each note hitting its full potential before the next note is played, no matter how fast theyre being played

when a neck is like a rock and little vibration occurs the 'attack' is fastest; visa verca when the neck has open pourussy(sp?) or soft grain the sounds are cushoined taken longer to reach its absolute volume;which could be desired; but thats not tone

when you pick a fb you want a hard dense piece of wood that will make the strings bright; when in reality the entire neck contributes to this;

this is my explaination; although i reread the post i originally responded to; and he never said it was neck tone; he was talking of the body which cherry is great!

but ya mahog is the weakest, i hate it, it has no attack; which is fine for classical guitars which are soft and 'melty'and electrics that are being played through so much distortion you lose the 'real' sound; going for the 'vintage' sound, but attack is nessacary for basses and guitars that are meant to be heard cleanly and alive;

its just me; but then again you asked

[westhemann]

lef...i think i remember that you are a bassist,so tonality is completely different.

but i find you geta very good tone and a tight,focused attack on 6 string with a mahogany body and neck with a ebony fretboard and emg actives....a good solid bridge is needed as well.

there is so much more to tone than just the wood...the wood is just a starting and an ending point in my view...all the other stuff in between contibutes highly as well.

BUT after saying all that,i find that the single greatest factor in guitar tone is the neck and fretboard wood...good quartersawn piecesclear of defects are very important

i agree about clean sounding electrics for the most part...but a cherry neck is tighter and more focused than even maple based on the one neck ibuilt with it.

BUT a good distorted tone does not really change the basic charachter of theguitar...it amplifies it...but i did say a GOOD distorted tone...not a korn-esque wall of mush

[another doug]

My most recent guitar has a cherry neck with a tung oil finish. I made it about 2 years ago. It's a little thicker than normal, but it's holding up very well, and has been strung with 11s for the last 6 months.

PS- LEF, in the first post he says he has enough for a neck blank.

[fryovanni]

i find tone to be the warmth or' hum' the woods make when a vibration is rung thru it;

like an acoustic, this is happening inside the box;

the 'definition' of attack is, the speed of which the highest volume is gained;

'which i find' happens in the neck; fast attack is the sound of each note hitting its full potential before the next note is played, no matter how fast theyre being played

when a neck is like a rock and little vibration occurs the 'attack' is fastest; visa verca when the neck has open pourussy(sp?) or soft grain the sounds are cushoined taken longer to reach its absolute volume;which could be desired; but thats not tone

when you pick a fb you want a hard dense piece of wood that will make the strings bright; when in reality the entire neck contributes to this;

this is my explaination; although i reread the post i originally responded to; and he never said it was neck tone; he was talking of the body which cherry is great!

but ya mahog is the weakest, i hate it, it has no attack; which is fine for classical guitars which are soft and 'melty'and electrics that are being played through so much distortion you lose the 'real' sound; going for the 'vintage' sound, but attack is nessacary for basses and guitars that are meant to be heard cleanly and alive;

its just me; but then again you asked

Well that explanation sounds reasonable, and thinking in terms of bass responce vs treble responce you do have a bit of a different approch when designing for a bass guitar. One real big difference we need to keep in mind when we think about how the wood or guitar will sound to us. Is the way we percieve sound(take a look at this)-equal loudness contour. This shows you how we hear or percieve different frequencies to be louder at equal levels. So it will take less actual level to hear some frequencies or more level to hear others(with equal percieved level). Now another consideration is percieved masking of frequencies if you have a slightly louder level at a specific frequency(a peak if you will) in a close band-simultanious masking. If you want to dig into these a little deaper you can find more info herepsychoacoustics

So when we talk "tone". I believe what we are actually talking about is "Timbre" or voice of the instrument. Here is a link-timbre. The Timbre of an instrument has many components, including attack, sustain, decay. Not every note will sound equally. The instrument will also have certain frequencies that come across as stronger because of the resonance of the instrument as a unit-resonance. So construction and the woods we choose do have an effect(pickups of course also have a resonant peak and signature that will greatly effect Timbre).

So when we talk about how a guitar or bass vibrates, and how this effects timbre or tone. All of it's components will play a role. If you hold a guitar you change it's resonance to some degree(so these things are not really something to try to micro manage). Use your ears and what sounds good to you is probably as important as any technical measure. As far as what woods dampen frequencies and how much. This is something we can use to equalize the Timbre to some extent. As far as stiffness, density and so forth as well as mass, shape and so forth. We can try to focus the resonance of the instrument as a unit(and we do this with what we know of from past experience). Same holds true of our pickup choices and other components. Think of a guitar or bass as a unit, and don't try to set too many hard and fast rules as design changes can really effect the overall Timbre. That is the beauty of building guitars.

I dunno if that is a helpful explanation or references. Maybe some other guys could add a bit to clarify.

Peace,Rich

[low end fuzz]

well fryovanni; you definatly have science on your side more; good articles; alot of info;

reading some of these points in the thread it seems that some are combining attack,sustain, decay and tone all in to one thing; and their judging these things with the pups; i guess i dont see it that way; i only go on what my own eyes and ears have witnessed

you can make anything sound like something with pickups; plywood body and soft maple neck;

but the true instrument is the sound of strings and wood; the bridge IS a major aspect aswell of course but any hardware will only accenuate what youve biult to hold them;

[Supernova9]

well fryovanni; you definatly have science on your side more; good articles; alot of info;

reading some of these points in the thread it seems that some are combining attack,sustain, decay and tone all in to one thing; and their judging these things with the pups; i guess i dont see it that way; i only go on what my own eyes and ears have witnessed

I think you'll find that your ears combine all those things into one thing as well, to give you the overall sound of the instrument. Soundwaves are typically analysed by the human auditory perception systems for a number of things:

Pitch (The notes on a musical scale)

Loudness (self-explanatory)

Duration (also self-explanatory)

Timbre (defined as the 'characteristic' sound of a certain source, be that guitar, piano or voice, that makes it sound different to other instruments even when playing a note of the same pitch, at the same volume, for the same length of time)

What can tone - this vague, almost mystical concept that far too many people propagate, be except for timbre? There's a lot of well-researched scientific evidence to suggest that IS the way we perceive it. How do you hear it, if not through the same hearing system as every other human on the planet?

[fryovanni]

well fryovanni; you definatly have science on your side more; good articles; alot of info;

reading some of these points in the thread it seems that some are combining attack,sustain, decay and tone all in to one thing; and their judging these things with the pups; i guess i dont see it that way; i only go on what my own eyes and ears have witnessed

you can make anything sound like something with pickups; plywood body and soft maple neck;

but the true instrument is the sound of strings and wood; the bridge IS a major aspect aswell of course but any hardware will only accenuate what youve biult to hold them;

I hope you understand that I was not trying to prove or disprove what you are saying. What you hear is the best tool you have to evaluate your work. Understanding how you hear is a good tool when it comes time to choose materials and design. You can dig much deeper into understanding what the content you are hearing, and believe me many people do. In the end it is still up to your ears and what appeals to you that counts.

As far as combining. "Timbre" describes the sound of an instrument(the whole voice). That is any instrument vocals, harp, cello, electric guitar or whatever. In the end you have the concept as Timbre is exactly what you hear or have "witnessed".

You may have noted I did not get into this part does this or that wood sounds like that. The point that I was trying to make is that the sound or timbre of an instrument is created by all of it's parts as a unit(as well as where and how you play it). I think we often focus on one element and lose sight of the whole. Shoot manufacturers jam it down your throat that their part will make your guitar sound like this or that. I think your last statement pretty much is in line with that thinking. All the parts do what they do(a=a and b=b ). When you put a and b together you get c. Any element that is modified or replaced will change the Timbre in some way(how much? really depends on the other parts as well as the part being modified). As a thought. How heavy a body is can make a big difference in how a stiff or less stiff neck may effect the timbre of a guitar(one is relative to the other). Anywho.. Hopefully something in all that made some sense.

Peace,Rich

Edited January 17, 2007 by fryovanni

[low end fuzz]

fryovanni;

totally i understand; i hope you didnt think that i tottally passed off and discredited what you were saying;

i have ideas in my head and the way i seem to perseve them and thats how i go about everything i do; i'll listen to everyone and try to keep an open mind when testing new things, but my mind is still in my own reality;

its like someone reading and doing all the research about your home town but never being there; then trying to tell you about it; they got all the facts; but its not the way you see it;

btw; i enjoy all your posts and you make sense of what your trying to explain which someday i might be able to; i also loved the xmas acoustic thread, and hope to see some finished pics soon!