Switch For Dual Capacitor Options

[al heeley]

I have a DPDT 6 pole on/on/on type switch - the sort I've used before for wiring series/parallel/coil tap options, but I want to use it for switching between bypass (no cap), cap1 (0.0022uF) and cap2 (0.0047uF) in series before the tone pot, to give a gretsch-style tone option (nice, muddy and muddier...)

Can I do it with this type of switch?

[JoeAArthur]

I have a DPDT 6 pole on/on/on type switch - the sort I've used before for wiring series/parallel/coil tap options, but I want to use it for switching between bypass (no cap), cap1 (0.0022uF) and cap2 (0.0047uF) in series before the tone pot, to give a gretsch-style tone option (nice, muddy and muddier...)

Can I do it with this type of switch?

Yes.

[al heeley]

I have a DPDT 6 pole on/on/on type switch - the sort I've used before for wiring series/parallel/coil tap options, but I want to use it for switching between bypass (no cap), cap1 (0.0022uF) and cap2 (0.0047uF) in series before the tone pot, to give a gretsch-style tone option (nice, muddy and muddier...)

Can I do it with this type of switch?

Yes.

how?

[Rick500]

Is it a 6 pole switch or does it just have six lugs?

[JoeAArthur]

I have a DPDT 6 pole on/on/on type switch - the sort I've used before for wiring series/parallel/coil tap options, but I want to use it for switching between bypass (no cap), cap1 (0.0022uF) and cap2 (0.0047uF) in series before the tone pot, to give a gretsch-style tone option (nice, muddy and muddier...)

Can I do it with this type of switch?

Yes.

how?

Like this - the circles represent the six lugs of your on/on/on switch.

         +---CAP2--o  o

         |           /

         |          /

Con1 ----+         o  o---- Con2

         |

         |

         +---CAP1--o  o

[/codebox]

Con1 and Con2 (Con for connection ) should be wired into your circuit as if this whole thing was just a single cap.

The value of Cap1 should be the smaller than Cap2 for the switching you describe

Don't forget - that is a diagonal wire between the switch lugs.

[al heeley]

This would not work - from your diagram the middle position and the lower position would both route the signal thru cap1, there's no facility for bypassing both caps. This is a conventional 6-lug DPDT on/on/on switch we are talking about here. Con 1 has to find a route through to con2 without passing thru a cap. Go to the back of the class and read the question properly please.

[Rick500]

Ah, okay, a regular ol' DPDT then.

You want one switch position to bypass the caps, and the other to give you the two caps in series, if I read that correctly.

Would this not give you what you want?:

(Edit: Or for that matter, just forget about the two extra points. Unless of course I'm completely misunderstanding you, chance of which I'd say is 50% )

Edited January 29, 2008 by Rick500

[JoeAArthur]

This would not work - from your diagram the middle position and the lower position would both route the signal thru cap1, there's no facility for bypassing both caps. This is a conventional 6-lug DPDT on/on/on switch we are talking about here. Con 1 has to find a route through to con2 without passing thru a cap. Go to the back of the class and read the question properly please.

This is how an on/on/on switch will switch:

Cap 2 selected


o  o

|  |

o  o


o  o



Cap 1 Selected


o  o

   |

o  o

|

o  o



No cap selected position


o  o


o  o

|  |

o  o

[/codebox]

Con 1 has to find a route through to con2 without passing thru a cap.

Not sure what you are trying to say, but this is not true - a bypass of the tone control, the [i]no cap selected[/i] position is not a short circuit. A short circuit would turn the tone pot into a volume pot.

Edited January 29, 2008 by JoeAArthur

[al heeley]

Rick: Yes I confirm you are 50% misunderstood. 2 caps in series is no use! I want the three positions of the switch to give me:

1) bypass (no caps)

2) Cap1 selected (0.0047uF)

3) Cap2 selected (0.0022uF)

JoeA: when i say a bypass, I do not mean a bypass of the tone pot, i mean a bypass of C1 and C2.

Your diagram of 'no cap selected' (the switch 'Down' position) does not compute with your earlier post - switch down would give you C1.

[Rick500]

Aha! Yeah, I wondered why you would want to put those two caps in series rather than just using a .0015 uF cap instead.

I think you need a second switch to accomplish what you're talking about. Like this:

The switch on the left -- up for cap, down for bypass; the one on the right -- up for cap 1, down for cap 2, only functions when the bypass switch is in the up (cap) position.

Edit: I re-read your post and see that I've misunderstood the switch you have.

[i had a suggestion here, but I'm not confident I understand what kind of switch you have there, so rather than chance misleading you, I del'ed it. ]

Edited January 30, 2008 by Rick500

[Myka Guitars]

al heeley, for all the corrections you are giving it would seem that you could have figured this out fairly easily by yourself. It is pretty simple circuit but I think you are confusing yourself by insisting on something that will not work (trying to keep con1 and con2 connected in bypass mode).

It helps to think of this as a whole circuit including the volume and tone controls instead of just a capacitor switch. This can work with just one standard dpdt on/on/on OR on/off/on 3-position switch. To bypass the caps (tone circuit) is the same as wiring just a straight volume control. You must bypass the entire tone circuit in order to do this or you will turn the tone into another volume control.

This is just like JoeAArthur said. He took you back to class but you weren't listening.

What you want to do is toggle between 3 options: cap1, cap2, and bypass. Pretty simple. The way to do it is to take the wire that would normally go from the volume control to the capacitors and run it though the switch. The middle position is set for the caps bypass. The other two positions toggle between the capacitors (which are hard wired into the tone control). Notice that in the middle position the caps and tone control are completely out of the circuit for true bypass.

~David

[al heeley]

Thanks Myka, that's just what I was after - I really could not get my head round it.

This is just like JoeAArthur said

No it isn't, it's similar - JA's scheme gives no bypass.

But I want to use this without bypassing the tone pot completely, I still plan to have a 0.047uF cap in with the tone ctrl but this switch will add in the option of 2 different low value caps in series as well. Thx for the clarification.

[Myka Guitars]

Oh, I get it now. You want a capacitor with the tone control always in the circuit with the option of adding in 2 more values. This will work for that:

Cool concept. It opens up some interesting ideas for a modular tone control. I just got a package of NOS caps to play with. I think I might try this out.

Thanks!

~David

[al heeley]

David,

Thanks to you for solving it for me!

[JoeAArthur]

I get it -

Bypass really means "not in addition to"...

Series really means parallel...

I think I'm straight now!!

[al heeley]

Errrmm...yes. Have a look here - its the schematic for the ric4003 with push-pull vol pot to switch in a small cap in series between the vol and tone pots. (The 'vintage treble tone circuit').

http://www.joeysbassnotes.com/TipsPics/400...TC%20wiring.pdf

What I wanted to do was put in a 3-way toggle switch instead of the push-pull so I could then add a second different value cap which would then give me access to 3 tone ranges: no extra cpa, extra cap value 1 or oextra cap value 2. I think with the Myka diagram it should work fine.

[JoeAArthur]

Errrmm...yes. Have a look here - its the schematic for the ric4003 with push-pull vol pot to switch in a small cap in series between the vol and tone pots. (The 'vintage treble tone circuit').

http://www.joeysbassnotes.com/TipsPics/400...TC%20wiring.pdf

What I wanted to do was put in a 3-way toggle switch instead of the push-pull so I could then add a second different value cap which would then give me access to 3 tone ranges: no extra cpa, extra cap value 1 or oextra cap value 2. I think with the Myka diagram it should work fine.

Add to that... "Gretsch" is "Rickenbacker".

In the Ric diagram, C3 is wired as a bass cut and the push/pull shorts around it for a full bass sound out of the bridge pickup.

That is not the same thing as Myka's diagram which would provide different cap values for normal treble cut.

[al heeley]

OK thx, we have to back to the start then now you fully understand what it is I'm trying to achieve. Sorry I was not able to explain better at the beginning. Thank you for your boundless patience.

I want to try and achieve the vintage switch option using a 3-way toggle as a standard push-pull will not fit within the shallow body cavity that is a Ric bass.

And since I have a 3-way dpdt switch I want to see if it's possible to add a second cap option so the bass cut is not so severe. I need to retain the bypass so the full bass sound is still available and I'm not in the slightest bit bothered how you would prefer to call the bypass, series, parallel, in, out, whatever.

[JoeAArthur]

OK thx, we have to back to the start then now you fully understand what it is I'm trying to achieve. Sorry I was not able to explain better at the beginning. Thank you for your boundless patience.

I want to try and achieve the vintage switch option using a 3-way toggle as a standard push-pull will not fit within the shallow body cavity that is a Ric bass.

And since I have a 3-way dpdt switch I want to see if it's possible to add a second cap option so the bass cut is not so severe. I need to retain the bypass so the full bass sound is still available and I'm not in the slightest bit bothered how you would prefer to call the bypass, series, parallel, in, out, whatever.

Just add another wire for the bypass to my previous diagram. One lead from the switch (lower right hand lug) and a lead from each cap twist together to form Con1.

This time, CAP2 should be smaller than CAP1 to give a Full/less/even less bass sound switching.

Con1 and Con2 replace the two leads for the single cap C3 in the Ric diagram - doesn't matter which is used for which.

         +---CAP2--o  o

         |           /

         |          /

Con1 ----+         o  o---- Con2

         |

         |

         +---CAP1--o  o

         |            |

         +------------+

[/codebox]

Does this make sense?

[al heeley]

Hey that would do it, switch down takes the easy route (bypass) instead of going thru C1.

middle pos'n routes thru c1 and up goes thru C2.

Perfect! Manya thanks for the input - thanks for bearing with me Joe!

[JoeAArthur]

Hey that would do it, switch down takes the easy route (bypass) instead of going thru C1.

middle pos'n routes thru c1 and up goes thru C2.

Perfect! Manya thanks for the input - thanks for bearing with me Joe!

Not a problem.

Personally though - I would have kept the single cap and used the switch for a choice of different parallel resistances (zero or bypass being one of those resistance). The cap, in conjunction with the volume control value, may determine the frequency of cut, but a parallel resistor would determine the depth of cut.

Just different strokes!!

Hope it works out!