GoodWood Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 ill have to keep all those tips in mind for future builds. Unfortunately, i didn't get that post until after i closed the box.. but its all a learning process so if the whole thing collapses when i string it up, at least now ill know why. So bascially what your saying is if the brace isnt inlet into the kerfing, and it is too thick.. it will have no flexibility and if the soundboard changes shape due to string tension or humidity, the brace could pop loose? Is this a guarenteed thing? the only braces that arnt inlet into the kerfing are the really small ones and that one that the kerfing broke more than i planned on when i was trimming it (how do you trim your kerfing for the braces.. chisels?) Anyway, here is a shot of the closed box.. now im just a little concerned as to wether i should continue my journey or not with a (fatal?) design flaw. Oh, and the center of the x-brace is about 5/8 i believe. Whatever kinkaid's book says to bring it to. Hey, you can always practice taking your bad ones apart and fixin them, I figure. It that baby a jumbo?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Don't stop now! I think all Rich was saying was that there is a potential for failure, not a guarantee. Finisher her up and see what you get. Plus, what a great place to learn about binding and neck joints and all of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Yea, don't tear it apart! I can't wait to see this finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pariah223 Posted June 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 yeah im pretty excited as well.. im much farther than i thought i would get without major failures, so if i get this one finished, and get to play at least one song before those braces pop off, ill consider it a win in my corner. Im not even done with this one and i cant wait to start what i will consider my "real acoustic" meaning not the learning experience with the cheapest wood there is... next step is the binding and that should be really interesting. If i make it past the binding, and the dovetail i should be in good shape. Id love to hear how you guys do your binding and your neck joints. Pictures of your jigs and fixtures and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Sorry I did not pop back in and respond here. No, don't take it apart. You can however modify those brace ends a couple of different ways. You could replace those bits of lining that broke off by glueing in a couple new bits(pretty simple to do, reaching in through the soundhole). You could also grab your chisel, and reach in there and trim the ends down(again pretty simple). No need to worry about it till after you get everything else rapped up. These things can be done anytime, and the risk really comes from the top getting thumped(something that would stress the brace), so it is not likely to happen while you are being careful with it. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pariah223 Posted June 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 so i am about to tackle the neck joint situation.. Im not sure which type of joint i should use, and am even less sure on the best way to do each. I have noticed that some people do all of that stuff before the block is even glued to the sides... But the kinkaid book (this book keeps steering me in the wrong direction it seems), shows him routing the dovetail joint after the fact.. What do you guys recommend for my first neck joint, and how do you suggest i go about doing it. I am not afraid of building jigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodWood Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 so i am about to tackle the neck joint situation.. Im not sure which type of joint i should use, and am even less sure on the best way to do each. I have noticed that some people do all of that stuff before the block is even glued to the sides... But the kinkaid book (this book keeps steering me in the wrong direction it seems), Yup Kinkaid does it the old fashioned way, or the English way, or the other way... You are about stuck with dovetail at this point I think...You cant drill out for bolt ons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Eh? Just do a butt-jointed bolt on neck. Drill from the outside in, using a new, sharp bit. Stick a bit of scrap to the inside of the block with double-sided tape to prevent some of the blow out, and you're fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Eh? Just do a butt-jointed bolt on neck. Drill from the outside in, using a new, sharp bit. Stick a bit of scrap to the inside of the block with double-sided tape to prevent some of the blow out, and you're fine. So your saying just slap the neck on there with a butt-joint and bolt? Why not do a mortise and tenon bolt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Mattia how the heck would that work. Sounds far too simple, and how am I going to get a sufficiently large glueing surface for my bolts Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pariah223 Posted June 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 man thats some nice looking wood.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) Um, they're bolts. No glueing bolts. That defeats the entire purpose of having bolts. Daniel: I can't think of a good reason to do a mortise and tenon joint - butt-joints are just as strong, easy to line up, no risk of making holes in the body (routing mishaps) and require less bulky (= heavy) neck blocks. Edited June 6, 2008 by Mattia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pariah223 Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 mattia do you have any pics or tutorials or anything for a bolt on acoustic neck.. that seems like a good option at this point in the game, but im having trouble finding resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 How do you go about attaching the bolt to the neck heel with that butt design since you lose 3/4" of thickness taking off the tenon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 The heel's not tinytinytiny, but still reasonably slim; you don't need much more than 1/2"-3/4" of heel thickness total: Side view of heel, still slightly oversize: http://www.xs4all.nl/~mvalente/guitarpics/Neck_GAB1_13.jpg If you want it inset further, sure, add a tenon. My adjustable neck joint neck will be set in a little bit deeper, and I'm taking a few design cues from Lowden for the next few, but if I decide to go with non-adjustable neck joints, I'm likely to stick to butt joints. I know Mario Proulx has even switched to bolt hanger things (wood screw in one half, screwed into the neck, use a nut to bolt the neck in place). Works just fine as well, but it doesn't look as graceful to me. I've even seen people use cumpiano-style barrel nuts in this kind of heel by drilling vertially into the heel and popping the nuts in that way (vertically rather than horizontally), although if I use barrel nuts I'm likely to switch to using a tenon, simply for servicability's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Um, they're bolts. No glueing bolts. That defeats the entire purpose of having bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pariah223 Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 this seems way more logical than a dovetail joint. Easier to build i would assume, easier to adjust if needed, and easier to replace... any reason to pick dovetail over this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 this seems way more logical than a dovetail joint. Easier to build i would assume, easier to adjust if needed, and easier to replace... any reason to pick dovetail over this? Other than tradition? Can't think of any, no. Bolt on necks sound great, look completely stock, and make it very easy to reset in the future, and finishing is simple (seperately, no worries about glue squeezout or anything of the sort). What's not to love? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pariah223 Posted June 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 are there any good tutorials for doing bolt on necks? It looks pretty straight foward and im sure i could figure it out, but i just like references. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodWood Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 are there any good tutorials for doing bolt on necks? It looks pretty straight foward and im sure i could figure it out, but i just like references. Try OLF....they have lots of good tutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pariah223 Posted June 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 (edited) would it be a good idea to do it this way? I just found this picture. http://www.woodsongguitars.com/specs/w/id/5/Bolt-on-Neck also found this for anyone looking for an answer to my questions... a pretty decent looking tutorial http://liutaiomottola.com/construction/Bolton.htm Edited June 7, 2008 by pariah223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 Mottola's site's a good one. And you can do the 'Taylor Style' recessed cantilevered neck joint, or even just float the supported part of the neck without bolting, but it's not strictly necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pariah223 Posted June 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 (edited) small update, which is more of me just thinking out loud and hoping for some feedback. I have been tossing around whether i should go with a bolt on or a dovetail neck. Up until about a week ago my plans were to just follow kinkaid's instruction and go with a dovetail.. until mattia brought bolt on to my attention.. After a lot of research i think i am going to stick with a dovetail for this build just because that was the plan from the beginning and i don't wanna run into any unforeseen problems by switching at the last minute. What do you guys think? Bolt on seems a million times easier.. but i would rather have that built into the plans from the beginning rather then changing it. Any objections? agreements? EDIT: A quick simple question... Which end gets the angle of a dovetail... If i had to guess, i would say the rout in the body is 90 degrees and then you cut the angle you want into the neck.. but i just wanna be positive. Edited June 10, 2008 by pariah223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 definitely stick with the dovetail joint. changing stuff at the last minute might turn out bad, everything is going smoothly it seems, just stick to your plan. I dont understand your question with the dovetail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pariah223 Posted June 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 i meant which rout gets the 1.5 or 2 degree angle for the neck angle i am pretty sure its the neck end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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