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Battery Drains Too Quickly...


Grimzors
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so recently i setup a neck with LED's in it, first guitar project ever done, and but the jackson reverse neck onto a epiphone les paul body...looks mighty sick...anyways the battery gets drained even while the lights are not switched on, any ideas?

and also the neck looks like its sticking up a bit out of the inner part of the pocket, is that normal?

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Need both pics and circuit...

LED's can sap a bit of power, but shouldn't when off...unless you haven't really got it off in which case the pull down resistor may be slowly draining the battery...

So...unless we have details...what can we say?

and also the neck looks like its sticking up a bit out of the inner part of the pocket, is that normal?

Well...again, have to see it to comment...but you built it...is that what you intended?

jackson reverse neck onto a epiphone les paul body

One has to wonder...is that normal :D !!!!

If you are doing a genetic experiment by grafting unlike instruments together...do you really expect it to be simply a matter of screwing it in a working exactly as the original neck fitted without any modifications?

Anyway...pics and diagrams necessary as always...

pete

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OK...thanks...

If the battery is not overheating (good point) and you are disconnecting it at the switch, then it may well be that is all you will get from the battery. If it is not connected, then there can not be drain while not in use as far as I can tell (without knowing what you have done). Remember, even though they are only a low voltage, lights still draw a fair amount of current and a whole string of them even more. If you up the value of the "pull down" resistor you may get a dimmer light that lasts longer.

good luck...pete

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OK...thanks...

If the battery is not overheating (good point) and you are disconnecting it at the switch, then it may well be that is all you will get from the battery. If it is not connected, then there can not be drain while not in use as far as I can tell (without knowing what you have done). Remember, even though they are only a low voltage, lights still draw a fair amount of current and a whole string of them even more. If you up the value of the "pull down" resistor you may get a dimmer light that lasts longer.

good luck...pete

hmmm do you think there is some type of wiring i can rig so it can run off the input jack power? i really need to tackle this issue!!

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hmmm do you think there is some type of wiring i can rig so it can run off the input jack power? i really need to tackle this issue!!

Use a stereo jack on your guitar's output jack. You can wire it so that when you plug a cord into the jack, it completes the circuit to ground on your power supply. When there is no cord plugged into the jack, it's impossible for the circuit to draw power.

Wire it like it explains here: http://www.diystompboxes.com/wiki/index.ph...e=DIY_FAQ#JACKS

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As I assume this is simply a light circuit, it should not be connected in anyway to the signal so the jack thing is probably not applicable. Failing there being a circuit...is this set up to simply light up?...then the likelihood is that it works just like an LED torch with a bunch of LED's and so draws a fair amount of power. It is impossible to have another opinion without knowing exactly what has been wired in there or know how it could draw power if the lights are turned off with a switch that effectively disconnects the battery.

hmmm do you think there is some type of wiring i can rig so it can run off the input jack power? i really need to tackle this issue!!

I am not sure what you mean here...no power is entering the guitar from the amp...a tiny signal goes out generally. There is the potential to have a remote power through a stereo lead to power the light circuit...but again...need to know what is actually in there...

pete

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As I assume this is simply a light circuit, it should not be connected in anyway to the signal so the jack thing is probably not applicable. Failing there being a circuit...is this set up to simply light up?...then the likelihood is that it works just like an LED torch with a bunch of LED's and so draws a fair amount of power. It is impossible to have another opinion without knowing exactly what has been wired in there or know how it could draw power if the lights are turned off with a switch that effectively disconnects the battery.

LEDs need power, they won't light up by themselves. The switching jack arrangement I linked above is convention for guitar pedals and guitars with active circuitry. The jack itself serves as a switch and plugging the cord in is equivalent to flipping a switch.

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True...but I assume that there is a switch on the guitar as the post suggests that the thing is running flat when turned off!!! A jack switch like any other (whatever is being used now) will not fix it if this is the case though I fail to see if the battery is really disconnected how it can be running down regardless :D

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True...but I assume that there is a switch on the guitar as the post suggests that the thing is running flat when turned off!!! A jack switch like any other (whatever is being used now) will not fix it if this is the case though I fail to see if the battery is really disconnected how it can be running down regardless :D

Yeah, I also interpreted the original post that way. Maybe the switch is miswired and the circuit is getting power all the time? But I would think that would only happen if at least one LED was always on. :D

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Unless...guessing here...somehow the resistor is still connected across it in some way and the power is being eaten by heating this up...but to work out if this is at all possible, have to know how it is wired!!!

I suspect a big problem really is an underestimation of how much power it takes to run these things. Often we have had people suggest that perhaps LED's could run off the electrical signal coming out of the pickup itself for instance...

hmmm do you think there is some type of wiring i can rig so it can run off the input jack power? i really need to tackle this issue!!

This last reply maybe hinted at that...or perhaps he did mean some kind of remote power pack...

Remote power is probably doable...use the ground to share the -ve supply and the tip for the signal and the middle ring for the +V but there are some potential risks involved.

Further...there have been some ideas with flashing or following lights lately...if there is anything like this involved, the power consumption can be very high. LED's are pretty efficient as lights go and work on very low voltages but the current can still be pretty high. The colour and brightness can also have a big effect...blue LED's and water clear versions often have a substantial power drain compared to the more typical red ones.

On the sustainer thread, it has been suggested that the use of indicator LED's only serves to run the battery flat faster...which is true...and that it is pointless as you know when the sustainer is on as the strings will be vibrating all the time! Personally, I seem to be drawn to include one regardless...but I might just be attracted by right shiny objects..who knows. I am sure though that a whole string of LED lights would soon flatten a 9volt battery.

9 volt batteries are not the idea power source either. They are great for where you need higher voltages but low current draw...say with an on board preamp...but a bank of AA's will last longer by far...this is why you often see these types used in torches and such whereas with stompboxes and guitar stuff, 9 volt is more typical.

just some thoughts...but without a diagram it is impossible to even guess at this "problem" or to ascertain if it even really exists (running flat when disconnected) or is a perception as much as anything...or to formulate a better solution. A pic of the guitar really doesn't cut it...

pete

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sorry guys was away from the pc for a day...well if anyone can find the LED wizard, i wired it exactly how that told me to, using the same resistors, i know the LED wizard is on here somewhere but i cant find it, maybe someone with better searching skills can? and yes the LED's are all wired correctly i believe, like i said the battery doesnt heat up, and when i turn them on the battery doesnt die within 5 minutes, its when its off that it drains, my only guess is that some wiring must be wrong on the switch part...let me try to describe how its rigged, so there's 10 led's in the circuit, the wizard told me to use a resistor for each one, and i forgot the resistance nnumber of the resistor but its a small one, anyways, its all wired correctly positive and negatives, now when it gets down to the switch and battery adaptor the positive wire and the positive wire of the battery are rigged up to one side of the switch while the negatives to the other.

there is some good news though, i strung the guitar today and it plays fine :D no weird fret buzzing or anything

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Odd...I am not familiar with the LED Wizard...is that the one with the diodes that follow your playing?

The switch thing sounds a little odd too...perhaps you could do a bit of a picture or drawing...it may be something fairly simple. Can't think why it could take a while to light up...maybe there is some capacitance for the circuit. It may also be that if there are a lot of wires (usually one pull down resistor is enough) you can get a lot of loops effectively making a coil and so an electromagnet that if wired wrong could be a problem with power...

There have been many LED projects here...there was one in the tutorial section for instance...but I seriously am not aware of any "LED Wizard" so there may be something peculiar about this circuit design...or some kind of tweak required...

there is some good news though, i strung the guitar today and it plays fine smile.gif no weird fret buzzing or anything

Well...really that is the main thing...

pete

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Ok...a useful tool for working out values...but not actually the circuit. Normally, a single resistor is used to lower the voltage and the lights strung up from that. We would still need some kind of circuit and especially how the switch is wired. LED's could be wired in series or parallel and your description of the switch sounds a little odd. If one side of the battery is completely taken out of circuit by the switch then there should be no possible power drain. However, if the battery is shorted at the switch (positive to negative) then this will be very destructive to the battery when off. This could be the problem but it is impossible to know without an actual diagram of what has been wired into the guitar...everything else is just guessing, I hope you understand...

pete

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theyre wired parallel, i'll try to draw it up tomorrow

Solution 0: 2 x 5 array uses 10 LEDs exactly

+9V

+ -|>|- -|>|- -/\/\/\- + R = 150 ohms

+ -|>|- -|>|- -/\/\/\- + R = 150 ohms

+ -|>|- -|>|- -/\/\/\- + R = 150 ohms

+ -|>|- -|>|- -/\/\/\- + R = 150 ohms

+ -|>|- -|>|- -/\/\/\- + R = 150 ohms

The wizard says: In solution 0:

* each 150 ohm resistor dissipates 60 mW

* the wizard thinks 1/4W resistors are fine for your application Help

* together, all resistors dissipate 300 mW

* together, the diodes dissipate 660 mW

* total power dissipated by the array is 960 mW

* the array draws current of 100 mA from the source.

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Not that i can help you with your problem, electronically inept, but i used the Wizard and was given the same schematic (10 led's with 5 resistors) and after a bit of headscratching (i'm using 2mm leds for side dots and they're not marked which side are + and which are -) it's been sitting wired up fine on the bench for 3'ish weeks and still has plenty of life in the battery so it could perhaps be the switch as PSW says. FYI i 'm using a standard DPDT switch like you'd use as a coil cut or the like, just connected to two of the six terminals.

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LED= Light Emitting Diode.

The resistors on the LEDs are for current limiting.

If you connect an LED directly to a 9V battery, it will blow immediately. I think those resistors are a little small, IMO. I would have made them bigger to knock down the current a little bit more. Like maybe 1K or so.

Anyway, if the switch was wired properly, it should be impossible for the battery to get drained as it physically breaks the connection. Something has to be defeating the switch somehow...

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LED= Light Emitting Diode.

The resistors on the LEDs are for current limiting.

If you connect an LED directly to a 9V battery, it will blow immediately. I think those resistors are a little small, IMO. I would have made them bigger to knock down the current a little bit more. Like maybe 1K or so.

Anyway, if the switch was wired properly, it should be impossible for the battery to get drained as it physically breaks the connection. Something has to be defeating the switch somehow...

good point, at first though i did try bigger resistors and it would heat up the batter in about 5 seconds to where you couldnt touch it...anyways i cant change them out now theyre already in the neck....but there has to be something with the switch

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Not that i can help you with your problem, electronically inept, but i used the Wizard and was given the same schematic (10 led's with 5 resistors) and after a bit of headscratching (i'm using 2mm leds for side dots and they're not marked which side are + and which are -) it's been sitting wired up fine on the bench for 3'ish weeks and still has plenty of life in the battery so it could perhaps be the switch as PSW says. FYI i 'm using a standard DPDT switch like you'd use as a coil cut or the like, just connected to two of the six terminals.

hmmm, well im using 1 resistor per LED, not 1 per 2, because the wizard said 2x5, even though im horrible at math i know thats 10..hah

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LED= Light Emitting Diode.

The resistors on the LEDs are for current limiting.

If you connect an LED directly to a 9V battery, it will blow immediately. I think those resistors are a little small, IMO. I would have made them bigger to knock down the current a little bit more. Like maybe 1K or so.

Anyway, if the switch was wired properly, it should be impossible for the battery to get drained as it physically breaks the connection. Something has to be defeating the switch somehow...

good point, at first though i did try bigger resistors and it would heat up the batter in about 5 seconds to where you couldnt touch it...anyways i cant change them out now theyre already in the neck....but there has to be something with the switch

Your battery shouldn't be getting hot. In my experience, when that happens, it's usually because there is a direct short between the positive and negative terminals of the battery...

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