Recommended Stain Before Tru Oil?

[Cherryburst]

Suppose I have an Alder or Basswood body (something fairly "neutral" in color and doesn't really need grain filling) which I want to give either a Walnut-brown or Mahogany Red stain before finshing w Tru oil

Is there any specific stain brand (pre-mixed) that anyone would recommend under Tru oil?

Would there be any advantage to anything water-based? Thanks.

[Glenn Hutchinson]

If you go to your local gun shop they should have a kit for finishing rifle stocks. It has three little bottles - walnut stain - tru-oil - sheen conditioner. The kit also includes sand paper and steel wool. I bought it a few days ago and it cost me about £20. There is more than enough to complete a guitar.

If you can't find it in the shop try ebay

Hutchinson Inlay

[Cherryburst]

Thanks, I think I've got a better wording for my question.... what kind of stain would go best w Tru oil on top of it:

Alcohol based (Behlen Solar Lux)

Oil based (most Minwax)

Water based (Minwax and who else??)

(are there any issues of a water based stain raising the grain on alder or basswood?)

Edited April 18, 2010 by Cherryburst

[erikbojerik]

Think of "stain" and "dye" as two different things.

Dye is just pure color, dissolved in either water or alcohol as the solvent. Either would be fine under Tru Oil as long as you let it dry completely (I'd give it 24 hours after the last application before your first coat of Tru Oil).

Stain usually has other additives in addition to color, like urethane or varnish of some kind, or oil. If you go with stain, it may or may not be compatible with Tru Oil.

I'd go with dye.

[Quarter]

True Oil contains mineral spirits so it may pull up an oil based product. Water or alchohol based dye would be best for clarity.

I have used True Oil over the Minxax water based stain on a test piece with good results. Just know that the Minxax water based stain is heavily pigmented and will obscure some grain. For my experiment I was shooting for a trans butterscotchy Mary Kaye type washed out look.

[Cherryburst]

Thanks guys, I did some more reading up and mineral spirits (oil) based stuff is out for this

If I don't want to DIY mix it myself, it looks like Solar Lux is the best choice?

(or any other comparable alcohol based)

Edited April 19, 2010 by Cherryburst

[madhattr88]

Thanks guys, I did some more reading up and mineral spirits (oil) based stuff is out for this

If I don't want to DIY mix it myself, it looks like Solar Lux is the best choice?

(or any other comparable alcohol based)

i used solar lux and tru-oil on my current build.

just make sure u don't seal the wood before staining. i waited 24 hours and still had some stain come off when applying the tru-oil.

camera phone pic (min-wax wood conditioner, 2 coats of solar lux and two coats of tru-oil)

although someone told me never to use the wood conditioner or any sealer before staining. just stain the raw wood.

Edited April 19, 2010 by madhattr88

[Cherryburst]

Wow! Thanks for posting that, it looks good. I guess that's the Red Blood stain?

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2007234/BE...Lux-Stains.aspx

[madhattr88]

Wow! Thanks for posting that, it looks good. I guess that's the Red Blood stain?

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2007234/BE...Lux-Stains.aspx

yup - blood red

[Cherryburst]

Hey, here's a followup question - same blond basswood/alder wood - suppose I wanted to do a sorta translucent/Mary Kay white type of thing under Tru oil?

Of course the Tru oil is going to impart some amber-ish color on top of the white - and that's OK - but what sort of whiteish stain under it might be good? It would obviously have some opaque white substance in it.

What might work? Minwax water-based pickling stain? How about the Stewmac opaque white dye they have w water based lacquer - but thinned out? Does Behlen make anything translucent white w/o mineral spirits? Thanks again.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Cherryburst

[madhattr88]

Hey, here's a followup question - same blond basswood/alder wood - suppose I wanted to do a sorta translucent/Mary Kay white type of thing under Tru oil?

Of course the Tru oil is going to impart some amber-ish color on top of the white - and that's OK - but what sort of whiteish stain under it might be good? It would obviously have some opaque white substance in it.

What might work? Minwax water-based pickling stain? How about the Stewmac opaque white dye they have w water based lacquer - but thinned out? Does Behlen make anything translucent white w/o mineral spirits? Thanks again.

hmmmmm. i googled white wood dye, and found a bunch of different products. sorry, but i don't think behlen's makes a white dye.

let me know if u get anything and how it turns out.

[Cherryburst]

How about if I were to take the white pigment that Stewmac sells, and mix it (very diluted) w denatured alcohol, and apply that to the bare wood? That seems like it might give a translucent/MK white sort of finish that would take Truoil on top of it?

[Quarter]

Strait pigment needs a binder to stay stuck so I doubt mixing it with alcohol will be very effective.

... I have used True Oil over the Minxax water based stain on a test piece with good results. Just know that the Minxax water based stain is heavily pigmented and will obscure some grain. For my experiment I was shooting for a trans butterscotchy Mary Kaye type washed out look.

The Minxax water based stain pigment base is very heavy on the white and will give you the MK vibe you want. Most colors they mix up on the spot and in at least my case were happy to do some custom mixing for my experiment. What I'd suggest is that if its a strait white that you want, pick the Winter White color and have them punch it into their computer, the formula will be x amount of white and assorted other pigments. I'd simply have then add up the remainder volume of non white pigments and substitute that volume for additional white.

[Cherryburst]

OK thanks, the Minwax water-based color chart is here, and winter white is in the middle:

http://www.minwax.com/products/wood_stains...ain.html#Colors

Yea, winter white sort of looks like it has some blues/grays in it. To get it custom mixed w all white pigments, would a place like Home Depot do that?

And did you find that being water-based it raised any of the grain?

[Quarter]

would a place like Home Depot do that?

They should, I got mine at Lowes. Just tell them what your up to and they generally are very helpful.

did you find that being water-based it raised any of the grain?

Not really, but I did pre-wet and knocked the whiskers off.

[Cherryburst]

Not really, but I did pre-wet and knocked the whiskers off.

How "wet" to make the wood when pre-wetting? Just a light wiping w a wet cloth, or a little bit more sponging?

How long to leave it pre-wet (to soak in) before applying water-based stain?

And did you use maybe a light wet/sand 1000-or-so grit for "de-whiskering"? Thanks again.

[Quarter]

I use an old wash cloth, wet, but not dripping. Wipe the wood down enough to make the surface wet, but not soaking. Let dry then very lightly sand with a fine grade paper, 320 - 400 works well. Again, sand very lightly, take one pass and feel for whiskers, if its smooth, your done.