Truss Rod Problem On Strat

[Rockhorst]

So today I bought a second hand MiM Fat Strat to mod the hell out of, something along the lines of the Adrian Smith signature Jackson.

Everything seemed fine, but I missed the over adjusted truss rod...big oops. Neck had a perfect relief with the 009 set that was on there, but when I put 010 strings on it, the action all of a sudden was enormous. The truss rod was very tight, so I loosened it, which produced a 'ting' sound, like plucking the tremolo springs.

I've loosened the strings and loosened the truss rod to the point where it just grips (which it still seems to do). The curve in the neck is quite severe even with this little tension on it. I tried rubbing it warm and gentle bending it into shape manually, which seems to have little effect. I reckon it's a good idea to let it rest for a couple of days in this state. Any suggestions (other than 'take it to a tech')?

[dpm99]

So basically the neck is bowed forward (neck relief) even with no string tension at all, and no truss rod tension? I'm sure it would be helpful if you could snap a picture to two and post them, so you'll get better help, and also so that others can learn something from reading about the outcome.

[Rockhorst]

I've never seen a neck change it mind this quickly: when I bought it, neck was straight...couple of hours later with a new set of strings, is bent all out of shape. Anyway, pictures!

Here we have the patient:

Supported by some fine 20th century literature and with string close to standard tuning, it's easy to see the curvature:

Here's a close up from the side, capo on the first fret. That is a huge, multi-millimeter gap:

Floyd Rose trems have their downsides, but at least the truss rod is easily accessible if need be:

The nut moves easily when unscrewing, hex insert looks fine. It's now quite loose I think, I'm a little unsure how far I can go...Maybe it's too far out already? Could I take it out to inspect the thread? The original manual states that a truss rod should never be without tension. Another close up:

With the strings slack and the truss rod loosened, the neck still isn't straight. It's actually about the same curvature as with the strings tightened. My best guess would be to gradually tighten the truss rod (eigth or quarter turn every day?) while gentle heating it up by rubbing it. Or should I put some more permanent tension on it for a couple of days?

Bonus question: does anybody know who manufactured this floyd and if it's any good?

Edited September 18, 2011 by Rockhorst

[Workingman]

The reason they say to keep tension on the rod is so it doesn't buzz while playing. Some truss rods and necks are more sensitive than others. Fender necks have a reputation of being sensitive. If you need more adjustment range you can add a washer before the nut.

[Rockhorst]

I think I'm going to treat it as a learning experience and try to straighten the neck myself, using a washer and a bit of clamping. From what I've read it should work fine. Anybody here ever done anything similar to this:

[FireFly]

If the problem is too much relief in the neck (too much forward bow), then you want to tighten the truss rod... Not loosen it.

Unfortunately, from the pic given, I cannot tell weather or not it is bowing forward or back. You can see bow easier if you look down the neck from either the bridge or nut.

The ting sound was probably the wood settling around the rod. If there is too much forward bow or "relief", then I would tighten it up till it starts to give some resistance (you said you loosened it up till it was barely catching) and then give it one more quarter turn. Then wait a few hours. If it isn't better yet, and there is still forward bow, give it another quarter turn. Repeat the process until the neck is at a desirable tension. The turning will have resistance, because it is wood bending.

Let me know if this helps!

[masterblastor]

Bonus question: does anybody know who manufactured this floyd and if it's any good?

Judging by the logo by the trem arm Id guess that it was by manufactured by Ping under the supervision of Floyd Rose. However, there are a lot of knockoffs out there. There are 2 ways I use to tell if a floyd is decent or not. First, what is the block made out of (if this is a Ping, it should be brass)? Second, are the knife edges still sharp and clean (no chunks missing)?

[Rockhorst]

Great to see some replies.

@Masterblastor: it has a brass block, so I guess it's a Ping indeed. Reading some good stories about them, and it seems that it should be an easy swap with an OFR (or a black Ping, if I can find one...anybody know where?)

@Firefly: have to get back to work now, will comment later.

[Rockhorst]

@Firefly: yes, the problem is too much relief. I noticed it when I changed the strings to a higher gauge, but the truss rod seemed maxed out, so I couldn't adjust further. I took all tension of the neck (strings and truss rod) and noticed the neck had a very pronounced forward bow just by itself. I've got the following strategy at the moment:

• Everyday I retighten the truss rod slightly, about a quarter turn twice a day. I warm up the neck by rubbing it and then carefully bending it straight by hand, tighten the truss rod and then let it relax.
  
• Get the neck as straight as possible with this method
  
• If I can't get it straight enough with the rod, I'll try the clamping method.
  
• With the rod still tightened, I'll set up the neck clamp and tighten it just enough for the whole assembly to hold together. Then I loosen the truss rod, forcing the neck to clamp itself, so I have some kind of 'base pressure' to work from
  
• Everyday heat up the neck with a low power lamp or hair dryer, slightly tighten the clamp and let it rest
  

I hope to get by with just the truss rod, but I'm preparing for the clamping just in case. Yesterday I made a mold of the neck at the 7th and 8th fret with 2 component 'fake wood', so that the clamping force is distributed evenly. Will post a picture of it later.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Rockhorst

[masterblastor]

Great to see some replies.

@Masterblastor: it has a brass block, so I guess it's a Ping indeed. Reading some good stories about them, and it seems that it should be an easy swap with an OFR (or a black Ping, if I can find one...anybody know where?)

Yeah, It's a pretty kick ass trem.

axcessories.com used to carry them.

[Rockhorst]

Great to see some replies.

@Masterblastor: it has a brass block, so I guess it's a Ping indeed. Reading some good stories about them, and it seems that it should be an easy swap with an OFR (or a black Ping, if I can find one...anybody know where?)

Yeah, It's a pretty kick ass trem.

axcessories.com used to carry them.

Still do, but the black one is out of stock.

[FireFly]

Be careful with heating and bending your guitar's neck... This can cause twisting, which in most cases can turn a neck to junk.

You did mention that the guitar is a Mex Strat. If this were a more expensive guitar, I'd say take it to a professional. But since its not your baby or anything, I say live and learn from whatever results you get. But I do think that adjusting the truss rod by itself without any further intervention should be enough.

[masterblastor]

Great to see some replies.

@Masterblastor: it has a brass block, so I guess it's a Ping indeed. Reading some good stories about them, and it seems that it should be an easy swap with an OFR (or a black Ping, if I can find one...anybody know where?)

Yeah, It's a pretty kick ass trem.

axcessories.com used to carry them.

Still do, but the black one is out of stock.

A couple other questions. Is that floyd not recessed? Were there no shims under the locking nut? And is there no angle on that neck? I haven't seen a pic of a strait edge run along the fret board, so take this with a grain of salt.... That neck doesn't look bad enough to require anything more than a couple 1/4 cranks on the truss rod. It does look like an inproperly installed double lock system. The rout for the nut looks to deep(if there are shims that aren't pictured, disredgard) It appears that the floyd is not recessed, and the neck is not shimmed to a 3 - 6 degree angle. That would account for a lot of your neck issues. My advise would be to shim the neck at the heel introducing some angle and then adjust the neck itself. That or break out the router and properly recess it.

[Rockhorst]

@Masterblastor: the posts of the Floyd are recessed, but without the entire routing to make it a real floating trem (so when bending up, the bridge meets the body quite quickly). Also, two shims under the nut and a micro tilt system installed. Guess Fender shared your concerns .

Over the last couple of days I've tightened the truss rod and the neck is now just about straight (just enough relief left). However, the tross rod really is at its max and putting string back on will probably bend the neck again. I'm gonna let it rest for a few days. A friend of mine offered two make me some custom washers out of plate steel for the truss rod nut. I think I'll also ask him to make the nut shims the same size as the nut: they're sticking out now, which is kinda ugly.

[Blackdog]

@Masterblastor: the posts of the Floyd are recessed, but without the entire routing to make it a real floating trem (so when bending up, the bridge meets the body quite quickly). Also, two shims under the nut and a micro tilt system installed. Guess Fender shared your concerns .

Over the last couple of days I've tightened the truss rod and the neck is now just about straight (just enough relief left). However, the tross rod really is at its max and putting string back on will probably bend the neck again. I'm gonna let it rest for a few days. A friend of mine offered two make me some custom washers out of plate steel for the truss rod nut. I think I'll also ask him to make the nut shims the same size as the nut: they're sticking out now, which is kinda ugly.

When you say that the TR is maxed out do you mean that it is already too tight or that you are running out of thread at the nut end ? Adding washers will only help you with the latter.

If you really need to tighten the rod a lot, the clamping method is actually better than just using the TR nut alone. You bend the wood with an external force instead of having the TR do all the work. Just loosen the TR, apply the clamping and add pressure to get a perfectly straight neck (or maybe just a slight backbow). Tighten the TR firmly and release the clamping.

It should work well, I have used the method on a mahogany set neck and it didn't work because I was having wood grain compression, but I don't think that is likely to happen on a maple neck.

[Rockhorst]

The truss rod screws on very easily for the most part, but doesn't do a lot. Then at some point it starts affecting the neck and you feel a normal 'counter' force when turning it. When the neck is almost straight, it all of a sudden becomes almost impossible to turn it (running out of thread?). Anyway, it's clamped now, I'll leave it like that for a while. (pictures later)

[LightninMike]

you might need to add a washer under the nut so you aren't bottoming out.... it would seem the wood has compressed a certain amount, and a 3cent part might just be the fix

[Rockhorst]

So, it's been like this for the past week:

Also carefully heated it with a heat lamp for about an hour last sunday. Waiting for the steel rings and other parts to arrive. Until then, I'll keep it clamped.

[Rockhorst]

It's been a while, but time for an update:

After 2 months clamped, I released the neck. Still not straight (just slightly better than before). Also, a friend of mine made some real nice washers for the the truss rod, but because of the locking nut, there's not enough room for them (sticking out of the cavity, so the nut can't sit flush). Major bummer. I did put on some strings, and it seems to take tension quite a bit better though. Contemplating my next step (one of the options being selling as many parts as possible, minimizing financial loss ). If anyone has suggestions left, please share.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Rockhorst

[Mender]

Instead of using washers under the truss rod nut, another method of allowing more adjustment would be to get someone to make you a new nut, a little longer than the original one. Then drill the inner end to remove about 2 or 3 millimeters of thread. Now the drilled part at the end of the nut will glide over the threads on the rod, giving you more adjustment without the use of washers.