Switch translation

[Lucius Paisley]

In the middle of a modification, and need a little help on a few possibilities.

I'm changing an Ibanez Gio (H/S/H) from a 5 switch to a 3 switch, and taking out the middle pickup entirely. Ultimately having a switch configuration of Bridge pickup/Neck pickup/No pickup (off).

Now, I read on another forum that if I just wanted to take out the positions 2 and 4 (neck/middle & middle/bridge) when swapping the switch, all that needs to be done is to wire up the 3-switch like it's a 5-switch. To me, that *sounds* correct, but can anybody confirm this is the case? I can't seem to find any diagrams of such a configuration.

If that is the case - if I then took out the middle pickup and moved the next pickup over / in its place, would this give me what I'm looking for?

Diagram included, if anybody has any pointers.

Thanks.

 

[curtisa]

Depends on the switch you're replacing it with - there's no guarantee it will come with the same number of solder tabs in the same arrangement as the 5 way.

I assume you've simplified the actual layout of the pickup wiring for the purposes of drawing up the diagram. There's no grounding shown on the pickups, but I assume they're in the guitar somewhere. That being the case, I suspect you can ditch the red-drawn wires from each of the pickups entirely and just leave the two blue wires and the connections to the volume pot

[Lucius Paisley]

It's an Alpha 3-way switch, the pickups are stock Infinities.

The closest diagram I could find was for the Ibanez GRX20 - which leaves out the red wires completely - but of course, wires up the 3-way in the standard way, which is fine for a strat, but not what I'm after.

The grounding isn't shown in the diagram because it's just more wires heading to nowhere, but I've got that sorted.

If the red wires do end up being necessary, I guess it won't take long to find out.

[Lucius Paisley]

Okay. So I think I have this right (left-handed by the way, in case I've done this upside down).

Right now, I have wires coming out of everywhere - output, pickups, wire for volume pot, and the ground wire that originally led from the switch to the volume pot... and since I've disconnected the tone pot, I am left with its grounding wire which leads to the tremolo claw.

I think? the switch still needs a grounding wire - the diagram above isn't clear - however, do I need to put back the original wire connecting to the volume pot, or can I use the "old" tone pot grounding wire instead? Both of which leaves me with one wire too many.

[curtisa]

Assuming the colour codes for your pickup wires are correct, what you have drawn there should work.

 

4 hours ago, Lucius Paisley said:

I think? the switch still needs a grounding wire - the diagram above isn't clear

If you wire it up as you've drawn it, adding back the ground wire to the switch shouldn't be necessary.

[Lucius Paisley]

I have taken out the FAT6 bridge in order to replace it with a hardtail - one of these.

For the moment, I have screwed the tremolo claw into the body so it isn't shaking about. Now will leaving the claw be enough, or do I need to ground the bridge as well?

[curtisa]

Ground the bridge. Grounding the claw will have no effect if there's no metallic connection to the bridge via the springs (which I assume you removed when the trem was removed).

[Lucius Paisley]

Right.

I don't have any spare wire at the moment, so hopefully if I reconnect that wire to the bridge, it will reach.

I guess I had better start attaching the bridge.

[Lucius Paisley]

Slight hiccup.

I've connected everything according to the schematic, however while testing the guitar, the sound is intermittent - either it comes in and out by itself, or I will touch the volume pot or switch and the sound will come on.

The schematic doesn't have a grounding wire coming from the switch to anywhere, but to save space, I've attached the grounding wire from the bridge to the switch, which I'm assuming is okay because I'm not dead and the guitar isn't on fire.

Any suggestions? I'm SO close.

[curtisa]

Intermittent signal sounds like faulty components, dodgy soldering or things touching each other that shouldn't be able to.

Grounding wire to the switch is not mandatory. Grounding wire from bridge to nearest ground point in the guitar is required for low noise operation. You will have buzzing issues if you do not ground the bridge (not lethal).

 

[Lucius Paisley]

Grounding the switch seems to have knocked the sound out completely. I'll disconnect it later and see what difference that makes.

Something seems very wrong about that.

[curtisa]

Depends what you're actually grounding on the switch.

If you've wired it as per the diagram above, it should be correct (no ground on switch). If you're getting intermittent sound, experiment wiggling wires and components until you can isolate what the culprit is, then track down the cause from there.

[Lucius Paisley]

Okay, now I have a major hiccup. Burning myself with the soldering iron was one thing, dropping it on top of the electronics was another.

Snipped and stripped the wires to get rid of the damage, but now there are issues with wire length, and I'm kind of jack of the whole f'ing thing.

SO, I'm taking the volume pot out of the loop (putting it in place of the tone pot because I like how it looks, but leaving it disconnected and using it to ground the bridge) and if I've got it right, hooking the output to the volume lug on the switch, thusly -

Now I'm under the impression that when a pickup is directly attached to the output, the corresponding ground wires are also connected. But since I'm employing the 3 way switch (two pickups / "kill" switch), this isn't needed?

And rather than letting that remaining ground (as identified) sit in the open, I can use a washer ring and then screw that into the body.

Do I have this right? And does the washer need to be made of any specific type of metal or will a generic metal washer be fine?

[curtisa]

I think there's some confusion as to what ground is for in this circuit. Ground is used to provide a return path and a reference point for current flow of the various electronic components inside the guitar. The pickups each need a ground and a hot lead connected in order for any sound to be generated, in the same way a 9V battery needs both its + and - terminals connected in order for it to power up a circuit. No ground, no sound. Ground can also have other uses - providing a noise shield against external interference or deliberately short circuiting signals to remove them from the output.

It's also worth pointing out that ground does not exist inside any guitar until you plug the lead in. Ground is actually via your amp. The "ground" in the guitar is really just a collection point for all the parts of the circuit inside the guitar that need to be grounded further downstream at the amp's input socket.

 

On 5/5/2017 at 1:14 AM, Lucius Paisley said:

Now I'm under the impression that when a pickup is directly attached to the output, the corresponding ground wires are also connected. But since I'm employing the 3 way switch (two pickups / "kill" switch), this isn't needed?

Your switching arrangement is basically [one pickup on] + {the other pickup on] + {all pickups off]. To get each pickup out of the switch you're just using it to select each of the hot leads in turn, plus the third position where you select nothing at all (although the removal of the volume pot in this iteration makes things a little more complicated now). Ground does not get switched here, You've correctly drawn the two required pickup grounds permanently tied together and then being passed back to the ground lug of the jack. My only extra suggestions would be to have a wire coming from the bridge and connecting to this ground point (this was in an earlier version of your diagram, so I assume you've just missed it out this time round), and find some way to ground any shielding that may be present in the guitar cavity.

Removing the volume pot has also removed the reference to ground that the circuit has when you move the switch to the [all off] position, so while it will still work, it will also be quite noisy when you select this position. In order to correct this you need to add some extra wiring to make sure the 3rd position is properly silenced. Easiest way to do this is to add a wire from the third-from-the-left lug on the switch to the ground point. That way, when you selct position 3 you're actually selecting a dead short, which will kill the output completely.

 

On 5/5/2017 at 1:14 AM, Lucius Paisley said:

And rather than letting that remaining ground (as identified) sit in the open, I can use a washer ring and then screw that into the body.

As long as this ground point does not accidentally make contact with any of the other electronic components within the guitar you should be good. This can even be as simple as soldering all three wires together and wrapping the soldered end in something insulating, Soldering to a washer and screwing it to the inside of the cavity is also fine, but is also more fiddly.

[Lucius Paisley]

I "kind" of get what you're saying, but without demonstration - diagrams, etc - and more likely, proper sleep, it'll probably take another couple of readthroughs.

Nonetheless, I've connected it all up, and it's mostly successful.

The kill position is perfect, I can "hear" the electricity, but there's no hum, buzz or anything.

Unfortunately, not so much with the pickups, they buzz like crazy, which gets better or worse if I wiggle the switch in certain directions.

Maybe this is due to a cheap switch, I'm not sure, but I'm going to connect a wire from the switch to the pot (as your second definition of 'ground') and see if that helps.

[curtisa]

You're still missing the bridge ground, if what I'm seeing is correct. This is most likely why it is so noisy.

I count four ground connections on the washer - one each from the two pickups, one on the cable that is (presumably) connecting to the output jack and one from the switch for position 3.

Is the wire on the back of the tone pot your bridge ground? If so, it needs to also be connected to the washer.

[Lucius Paisley]

Yeah, I'll be changing that over later today. As well as attaching a wire between the switch and washer as a precaution, and so I don't have to check it twice. It's probably redundant, but what the hell, it was the grounding point for the middle pickup before I removed that.

[Lucius Paisley]

Done for now. The bridge pickup cuts off randomly, but I'm tired of messing with it. I'll get someone to look at it at some point.

The tape covers the old volume slot, while the volume control now sits disconnected in the old tone slot - just because it looks plain without a control knob.