Tony Enamel Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Sustainer Success!!!!! I was having some electronics troubles (biasing the drain on JFET) which I have recently resolved. I wound a new coil (32gauge wire, 8.5ohms, 3.5mm) on top of an old pickup and IT WORKS! I'm getting sustain on all 6 strings! This is such an accomplishment for me, having no electronics experience whatsoever. So I'll be burnin through 9volts like mad for the next little while untill the novelty wears off. I'll try to get some pics and sounds up soon. My circuit is still on the breadboard so I go some solderin' to do. Now I have to build a new guitar to house this thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Well done! I have my components now (except they didnt have the LM386 or the correct transistor ), so I'll be making mine soon. Its reassuring to see more and more people make successful sustainers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Enamel Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Quick question, on the fetzer-ruby, which pot is used as the sensitivity control (vol or gain)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Well done... See, it does work!!! The sensitivity control is the one that goes into the LM386 after the transistor stage. It isn't necessary and I dont use mine really, you will find the thing can be best controlled by playing technique. As for the popping, I did try a few of these usual fixes and there is a thread over at DIYstompboxes with some contributions but the thinking is that it is a kind of backlash from the coil that is causing the problem...not a feature of a typical stompbox. The more people build this and try fixes though, the better we can get a handle on this minor problem. Electronic switching would be neat to allow easier switching with micro pushbutton switches and the like and unlimited connections, but the switching circuit may end up quite large compared to the tiny amp we are using so I am not sure about it at all. If people were to be making a specialist sustainer guitar, perhaps they could consider a single pickup guitar with sustainer that would make the switching and other problems so much easier. A three pickup guitar like my strat was a little ambitious switching wise, but it shows it can be done. A future project may be to attempt a mid-pickup position sustianer driver so that either neck or bridge pickup could be used (like dizzy was able to do) but using the thin driver principle...but that would take a bit of R&D. I'd still like to see someone develop a better preamp without the need to adjust the bias on the transistor and such, maybe an IC type with a little more gain, a printed circuit board design and a universal size. Anyway...it looks as if more and more people are able to successfully get this to work and we are getting closer to the standardized format that will ensure a successful project...nothing but good...enjoy... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Enamel Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Hey all, I'm trying to design a PCB trace transfer for the fetzer-ruby. What program is the easiest to use. I'm making the board using the toner transfer method. Better yet, has anyone already done this? If so, hook a brother up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 There are some patterns for the Fetzer-Ruby amp somewhere on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobin Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 (edited) Hey guys, Well done Tony! Just thinkign about the high E, and was watching G3 Live in Tokyo, when I noticed that Steve's Sustainer had this little bit of metal, at the front edge of the p/u - possibly to help sustain? Have a look. Edited July 23, 2006 by Roobin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Yes...the fernandes and sustainiac both describe "shunts" for the high strings in their various patents. These are pieces of metal that seem to act to give a tighter focus to the magnetic field around the high e and b strings. I have not found them necessary myself with my thin core (3mm steel blade) and I notice fernandes don't seem to have them on their newer models (they look like humbuckers) but I could be wrong. I haven't lloked at that DVD in a while but I do see that Steve has bits of what looks like duct or gaffa tape holding the pickups down sometimes...possibly running repairs that just keep running...lol. I did try using a u shaped metal piece that was magnetised under a thin coil driver, but found it had no disernable effect. This thin driver seems to work well with out it, though my main aim was to try and reduce EMI (squeel) so that I could maximise power...a kind of magnetic sheild if you like...but this is not what these shunts are about as they are only around the high strings. I was able to create effective EMI damping with a metalic epoxy putty on the Hex drivers...but that is another story and a whole different kind of technology... good observation... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobin Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Hey, cam up with an idea, not sure how useful it will be tho... Ok, so the bsic principle is that the ouput from the b p/u is sent to an amp then a driver, which reproduces the string's vibrations. (is that right?) So if a string, to put out say and E, vibrates in one way, then a F will do it slightly differently. Imagine if you could store all these different notes, then reproduce them. Of ocurse, this would have to be digital, and beyond our scope, but jsut an idea. You could pitchshift wihtout a whammy bar, or trill...the possiblities are (almost) endless. BTW the tape, the bit with Konx written on, is jsut to stop the string from snapping on the p/u...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roobin Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 (edited) Which of these is the right wire? I'm a noob when it comes to wires... Green Tefzel® wrapping wire,30awg 100m <- I'm guessing not this one or Insulated copper wire,30awg 700m Also, I've been reading, and differentr people have used different gauge of wire - soem 30awg, some 36...which should I start with? Edited July 23, 2006 by Roobin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 For the driver what would be best: a thin core (eg 1mm) or a fatter core (eg 5mm or more), or do you think would I be wise to just copy yours, pete, and make it 3mm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Enamel Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 (edited) Also, I've been reading, and differentr people have used different gauge of wire - soem 30awg, some 36...which should I start with? The recommended wire is 0.2mm which would be 32 gauge AWG wire. You want to make sure the wire is insulated with a coat of varnish (or whatever it is) so you don't short your coil. You should have to scrape the coating off the wire before you can get a reading through it. For the driver what would be best: a thin core (eg 1mm) or a fatter core (eg 5mm or more), or do you think would I be wise to just copy yours, pete, and make it 3mm? I think it's best to stick to the working formula for your first attempt (ie. thin (3mm) driver with thin blade core with 32 gauge wire wrapped to 8ohms). After you've achieved some success, then start tweaking if you like. I just finished my first attempt and I stayed close to the recommended formula. I converted a stacked singlecoil bobbin to 3.5mm by adding plastic shimms to the top bobbin with CA glue. I wound this to 8.5ohms with 32gauge wire potted with white glue. I put this onto the pickup (the bottom coil is not connected to anything). It has individual magnetic pole pieces (not blade) and is fed by a Fetzer-Ruby. I get pretty good sustain with the driver held over the strings. The high E and B strings take a little work to get going but I have had sustain on them though it's intermitant. (sometimes works sometimes doesn't) My first tweak will be the thin blade core to see if I can get more sustain out of the high strings. Edited July 23, 2006 by Tony Enamel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Enamel Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Hey all, I've recently attempted to instal my sustainer in a guitar and everything seems to fit OK. BUT...I've noticed my 9v battery is getting really warm. Is this normal? ...Or do I have something wired wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 No, your battery should NEVER get warm. If it is, you have a short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Enamel Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 1. What exactly causes the battery to heat up? 2. Where would you look first? (for the short) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I've noticed my 9v battery is getting really warm. Is this normal? that is strange, never happened to me. I'd be surprised if it worked at all if it was a true short though...hmmm The recommended wire is 0.2mm which would be 32 gauge AWG wire. This seems to be a pretty essential part of the formula, any variation has been less, or mostly unsuccessful, I tested a few variations, but this is what you need! I converted a stacked singlecoil bobbin to 3.5mm by adding plastic shimms to the top bobbin with CA glue. That's a good idea, though the half single coil will be pretty useless as a pickup now due to only having half the windings...still, you got a driver and all the magnetics right and it looks like a pickup...so that's neat! My first tweak will be the thin blade core to see if I can get more sustain out of the high strings. The blade attracted me as there will be a noticable loss in sustain when you bend strings away from the poles...also a blade is easier to construct than separate poles (unless you use screws) IMHO. or do you think would I be wise to just copy yours, pete, and make it 3mm? Yes...it may work with other arrangements and I haven't tested the competing theories, but 3mm is about the size of most poles anyway so mimics the pickup's field and will work as a driver...I think the thinner core will be better to drive the high strings...but I am prepared to be proven wrong. 3mm or 1/8" is a fairly standard steel stock thickness, so it should be easiest to find. You could also make it by layering thinner material, which may also have some advantages too. There are quite a few variations possible...an internal magnet like in Tim's epoxy bobbinless driver may be fine, but is a little different than a driver with the mag underneath like some of mine, or with the mag far underneath, below the pickup coil, like in my strat. Insulated copper wire is what you need. Wrapping wire is different (it's teflon coated for one thing, and fairly expensive, though it looks cool!). It is commonly sold for making inductor coils in circuits such as is found in speaker crossovers in Hi-fi and in Ham radios, etc. You don't need a huge roll or anything, you will get a few drivers out of a little roll for about A$7. Keep the thing simple and cheap, and enjoy... pete hope there is an answer to the warm battery, sometimes you may notice the driver getting warm and the circuit will draw a bit of current out of a battery (that's why it eats batteries fairly quickly if used a lot) that can make a battery a bit warm...don't think it should get hot though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 The blade attracted me as there will be a noticable loss in sustain when you bend strings away from the poles... Pete, with my sustainer, I notice absolultely NO reduced sustain at all while bending strings, and I used a normal pickup bobbin with polepiece screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Anyone know a UK site where I can get the LM386 and the J201 / 2N5457 / MPF102 transistors, without a minimum order or extortionate delivery? I've searched without any luck... I've found sites that carry both, but I dont really nead anything else, so I find I either have to make my order up to about £20 or I have to pay postage costs that are about 10 times the cost of my order. I phoned a couple of companies and asked f they could just shove them in an envolope and post them for £0.26, but both refused. I've checked locally too. Maplin dont stock them and there isnt really anywhere else thats local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I've checked locally too. Maplin dont stock them and there isnt really anywhere else thats local. Check again Maplin - LM386...if they don't have it in a local store then they may well be able to get it in, they are a very common chip...the transistor, well I'll let you check that out. It occurs to me that people may find an electronics club where enthusiasts get together...they may well be able to get the parts, advise or even build something as simple as this for you, who knows! Meanwhile keep searching, and don't forget to ask at the counter these little bits get squirreled away sometimes pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 (edited) Check again Maplin - LM386...if they don't have it in a local store then they may well be able to get it in, they are a very common chip...the transistor, well I'll let you check that out. The woman in store told me they'd stopped stocking both the chip and transistors all together... and when I type my postcode in that box it gives me this: store: Leeds Superstore stock :4 distance: 16.1 miles Huh??? I was at the leeds superstore a day or two ago, and If they'd delivered more stock since then I doubt theyd just buy in 4 chips... anyway, thanks for drawing that to my attention pete, I might give them a call. Edited July 24, 2006 by Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Enamel Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Hey all, I was wondering, is there a way to use two 9v batteries so that you get a longer battery life/playing time out of the sustainer? StewMac sells these: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_p...es.html#details and I thought I might use one in my next build. Would you have to wire the circuit differently to take 18v down to 9v? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 If you wire two 9v in parallel, you will still get 9v. The voltages only add together if the batteries are in series. If you try to reduce 18v down to 9v, you will have a LOT of wasted energy in the form of heat. If I were you, I'd go to your electronics supply store and get a 12v AA battery clip if you can fit it in your guitar. Thats what I used, and it doesn't require any modification to the circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donbenjy Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 There doesn't need to be a modification- it doesn't look like the 2 clips are wired together, just the wires seperately. You could wire in parellel, and all that would happen is thecurrent draw from each battery would halve, doubling the run time of each battery. Or you could wire in a switch to change connections as one dies. Then you have an easily switchable backup if it dies in an awkward place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Enamel Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Can someone explain how to wire the on/off switch for the sustainer. I think that's where my problem is. I don't really get how DPDT switches work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 OK...hear are the two switches again... The harmonic switch is easy...it is a DPDT switch, wired just like a phase switch (in fact, a phase switch on the signal will produce the same results, but I have it on the driver leads). Basically it reverses the two wires. This is the On/Off/Bypass switch which is a lot more complicated and may vary with different guitars. It is a 4PDT switch that means it is like two DPDT switches or 4 switches that switch together. In one position the middle and top pins/lugs are connected, in the other the lower and middle are connected. If you look at the phase switch (top) you can see that in one positon the middle lugs connect directly to those above, and in the other it connects via the crossed wires to reverse the connections. So...looking from left to right from each switch, let's look at how I wired up my strat... The middle connected to the upper lugs are the sustainer on and the pickups bypassed and the bridge selected...the middle is the sustainer off and the guitar's output connected to whatever the pickup selector has selected... The first switch controls the hot leads for the neck and middle pickups The second switch controls the earth/ground for the neck and middle pickups The third switch controls the bridge pickup...it will always connect the bridge pickup when the sustainer is on to both the output (via the guitar's volume control) and the circuit...when off, it connects the pickup to the selector. If the bridge is not selected then it will not sound, it just allows for this to occur. The fourth switch simply connects the battery to the circuit when the sustainer is on, and disconects when off. An LED connected to the circuit will light when power to the circuit is given. This works only with my strat as it has a slightly weird wiring. I have the middle pickup always on and use a threeway selector (gibson style) to select betweeen the neck and bridge or both. The middle can be turned off by it's own volume control that replaces the middle tone. There is a master tone for the whole guitar. So for a traditional strat you may well need a 5PDT switch to handle the two surplus pickups independantly. Now I recall, I did loose some great sounds on this guitar as the mid pickup was separate in that it bypassed the master tone meaning I could blend dark neck and/or bridge pickups with a bright mid pickup to varying degrees...rats. Anyways...I didn't realize that I would need to lift both the ground and hots of surplus pickups till I installed it!!! Even if I had the power always on, I would still need more than a DPDT to do it. A two pickup guitar would still require this amount of switching. This is why the topic of electronic switching comes up...all this switching could be done by a logic circuit and triggered by even the simplist switch (maybe even a touch pad)...but that is a whole 'nother circuit! The exception is a single bridge pickup guitar (like primals is now I guess) where you just need to turn the thing on (no bypassing required)...easy! So...I hope that helps a little in seeing how these switches work and how it applies to the sustainer. BTW, I found the sustainer worked better once installed under the strings and there was less EMI so more power could be applied before it squeeled. On the topic of batteries...9 volts is adequate but the bank of AA's that primal is using would supply more power for longer, but more batteries to replace and space in the guitar. Two 9 volts will work as described but you will still need to replace them. Basically the sustain will be slower to kick in as the battery dies and when very flat, there may be some audible distortion to the sound of the guitar. If the sustainer is used for brief periods of time, the battery will revive a bit and you will find that it lasts a reasonable amount of time...but you will need to get to it easily, so hiding it under a strats scratchplate with all those screws and strings in the way is probably not an option. Those flip top holder's would be ideal, but a Les Paul style rear access is OK too. Remote power would solve the space and the power consumption issues but raises more issues of it's own, as well as options...but has not been tested. Another long post from me, but I hope it helps...keep at it... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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