Gregory Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 I was wondering if I could get by without the 30 some dollar file from Stew-mac. I have a nice trianglar file, would that work? also it seems like I could grind a concave slot in a little Arkansas stone I have. In the "Whats new this Month" Section of the main site, it has a link to a new tool tutorial called "how to make a fret bevel tool" but the link is broken and it wasn't in the tutorial section, I was wondering if thats a teaser for something in the works or if it just needs to have the link fixed. Is that the tool I need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 a triangle file will work but its more complicated, but many builders swear by it. I myself got one of those stewmac files (except mine was from lmii same thing though) and its pretty nice, and it comes with 3 different size files (that are interchangable) for different fret size, and it makes it easier and faster to file frets, and a lot less chance of damaging your fretboard. if you want to use a triangular file, you chould have a file with the edges not abrasive, so that you dont damage your finger board when filing close the the fb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 You can get away with the triangular file, a piece of 1/4" thick wood (approx 3" x4"), some sandpaper, and some steel wool. First make sure your frets are level. I use the diamond sharpening stones since I have one for my chisels and plane baldes. You can use a flat Arkansas stone too (flattening it with 400 grit paper on a pieec of plate glass nder running water). After the frets are leveled dress the fret ends with a triangular file like truerussian describes above. Once the frets are level and dressed take the piece of wood and file a groove into the longer edge of it. Make it about what your frets are but a little bit bigger. I used a piece of veneer backed MDF so the groove was easy to make. You can use anything for this. I used a small needle file to do the work. Next take 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper and fold a piece around the piece of wood so that the paper goes over the groove. Lightly sand the frets using this moving the sandpaper to a fresh spot every fret or two. Take is slow and easy making sure not to touch the top edge of the fret. It seems like it will a little but it will set into the groove completely only when it is perfectly round. Repeat with 400 and then again with 600 to remove scratches only. If the 220 is cutting too much start with 320. Go over each fret with #0 steel wool. Your frets will shine after this step. If you want you can take it up to #00 but any higher will dull them again. This process works for me and I am able to get some really close action on my guitars. I have used the fret files but I came up with this method after getting frustrated with the file marks left on the frets. I made this tool to take them away and found it as a good replacement tool altogether. Hope this helps and at least offers another perspective on fretting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Hey, you guys are using those Arkansas stones, and I live in Arkansas and have never used one.. lol j/k Myka has a good method there! Here's another tip: I find that if you tape up the fretboard to keep it from getting scratched up, you can use a Dremel and polishing wheels with different grade polishing compounds, you can get some of the smoothest playing frets ever. Finishing it off with Hand Glaze will really make them shine, just watch out for flying polishing compound, start up slowly, lol.. You should wear goggles when doing this anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Go over each fret with #0 steel wool. Your frets will shine after this step. If you want you can take it up to #00 but any higher will dull them again. . why is this, i thought the more 0's there are the more fine it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 why is this, i thought the more 0's there are the more fine it is? Good question. I don't know really why it works this way but I get more shine out of #0 than #0000. The finer steel wool puts a tiny scratch pattern all over the frets whereas the coarse wool shines them nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted August 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Thanks... (great to know that guitarbuilding isn't going to take more money from me just yet.) That sounds like a good technique with the sandpaper and the laminate. Myka- why would you need to do both the method you described and therussian558's way, it seems that they do about the same thing? BTW. there are some cool guitars on your site! Good question. I don't know really why it works this way but I get more shine out of #0 than #0000. The finer steel wool puts a tiny scratch pattern all over the frets whereas the coarse wool shines them nicely. My take on steel wool is that I can get a really nice shine with #0000 steel wool on frets (i've done it on a mandolin and those frets almost glowed.) #0 and #00 are pretty coarse so it seems it would wear your frets away pretty quickly and leave even bigger scratches then the finer wool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlleyw Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 I agree about the triangular file. It's a bit more difficult to use, but it's more versatile. It allows you to create any shape you want. Last week we went to the beach, and I took a few projects with me. I forgot my Stew-Mac fret file, and all I had with me was a triangular file. It actually worked better (for me) than the stew-mac. As others have said, it's important to round the edges of the file so you don't dig into the fretboard. A bench grinder works, but be careful! Those things can send unsecured tools flying all over the place, so make sure to maintain a good grip as you work. Also make sure to cool the file off regularly as you work. (A bucket of water works.) Otherwise you can overheat the file and ruin the temper. DO mask the neck with tape. (DO NOT tape over a fender headstock, it pulls the decal right off.) Once you have the crown shaped to you liking you can use 220, then 400 and 600 grit sandpaper. Quarter it, fold it into little pads and run up and down the fretboard. This helps the crown. THEN use the 0000 steel wool to take out the vertical scratches left by the sandpaper. BUT, if you use a fine enough grit paper, there won't be many left. I did this last week, and didn't even need to use the dremel to polish. It took some elbow grease, but it worked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 I don't know if its worth the investment but I've been told that the true diamond fret file will crown a fret in only a few swipes. I bought the tool-steel fret file a while ago, half the price of the diamond file and wasn't happy with the results. I've been using my trusty triangular file for years and don't see a reason to change. Fret files can only be used on frets while I can think of multiple applications for the triangular. If you only build/work on one or two guitars a year I can't see the need to invest 70 bucks on a diamond fret file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Myka- why would you need to do both the method you described and therussian558's way, it seems that they do about the same thing? BTW. there are some cool guitars on your site! Thanks! Glad you like the work I am doing! I was thinking that the triangular file would work for the fret ends and the sanding block for crowning the frets. The sanding block will not round the ends only the top of the fretwire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 I tend to like the " most advanced" fretting tools, but when it comes to re-crowning, I keep on using a skinny 3 corner deal with safe-ground edges. I figure if I use a long flat bar to sand a curved fret-board, I can use a long flat file to shape a curved fret. At least I can see what's going on, since it's not a file that covers the whole top of the fret. I've only had 1 three corner for all these years, and I have even forgot exactly what I used to smooth the edges on it. Maybe I used a sharpening stone. Whatever I used worked very well. Well, this morning I bought 4 new 3 corner files, made by Dick fine tools of Germany. A store here in Germany was selling files of all sizes for just 1 euro each. It's like it rained files at my place. I have about 50 files all over the place that I just bought. I even got these huge 14.75" steep angle lathe files, they're giant versions of StewMacs fret leveling files (without the wood top glued on, of course). They had .010" joint files (same as nut slot files) They only had 4, but for 1 euro each, I feel pretty lucky. They had a cant saw file, that I bought , but it's too big for fret-work. But check out the cant saw file (frank ford's site, and stew mac has one already ground) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morben Guitars Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 One of the best file ideas I've ever seen was from a local builder at our monthly luthier meeting. He has used it for 15 years. He took a single cut file and epoxied two blocks of wood to the back of it at both ends. Holes were drilled through the wood and a threaded rod was inserted through them. They were held inplace with nuts on both sides of each wooden block. So essentially you could tighten or loosen the bolts until you had a perfectly flat file. The rod running between the two blocks also served as a handy handle when flatening the frets... He would ensure flatness by haveing a known flat item (metal scraper works great). By slowly running the file down the edge of the scraper, you could easily tell when you had the file flat. Does this make sense? A picture would probably help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Jabsco Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 for crowning does anybody use the radiused sanding blocks? and also, to prevent messing up the fret board could you use the slotted fret board protecters stewmac sells? (or just make your own) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 One of the best file ideas I've ever seen was from a local builder at our monthly luthier meeting. He has used it for 15 years. He took a single cut file and epoxied two blocks of wood to the back of it at both ends. Holes were drilled through the wood and a threaded rod was inserted through them. They were held inplace with nuts on both sides of each wooden block. So essentially you could tighten or loosen the bolts until you had a perfectly flat file. The rod running between the two blocks also served as a handy handle when flatening the frets... He would ensure flatness by haveing a known flat item (metal scraper works great). By slowly running the file down the edge of the scraper, you could easily tell when you had the file flat. Does this make sense? A picture would probably help. Are you talking about fret crowning files (for making the fret tops round again), or fret-leveling files (for making the tops of all the frets level by milling all of them, not filing on each one seperately). ? If you're talking about leveling files, I'm very interested in the file straightening device for these massive files I just bought. Yeah, a picture would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 for crowning does anybody use the radiused sanding blocks? The radiused sanding blocks are for dealing with the curvature across the fretboard. Crowning deals with the curvature across the tops individual frets. and also, to prevent messing up the fret board could you use the slotted fret board protecters stewmac sells? (or just make your own) I added a 1/2 dozen into my last order, although you can only use 1 at any given time, . They work well at protecting your fretboard but you need an extra hand to hold them down. I still use green painter's masking tape for the most part. Also, the fretboard protectors can only be used up to the 18th fret on shortscale (24 ~3/4") necks. But they DO come in handy if you've already peeled off all your tape and then find you missed a fret. You could make your own but they need to be very thin and flexible to conform to any neck radius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 I find that if you tape up the fretboard to keep it from getting scratched up, you can use a Dremel and polishing wheels with different grade polishing compounds, you can get some of the smoothest playing frets ever. Finishing it off with Hand Glaze will really make them shine, just watch out for flying polishing compound, start up slowly, lol.. You should wear goggles when doing this anyway. Is what I do after the fret crowning file...works great! First I use the 8" StewMac radius block 320-400-600-1200 silicon carbide paper to level, then bevel the edges on a belt sander (careful!), the crown and buff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morben Guitars Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 If you're talking about leveling files, I'm very interested in the file straightening device for these massive files I just bought. Yeah, a picture would be nice. Yes, a fret leveling file. Here is a side view of what I am talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 That's exactly the type of thing I'm looking for. But, what do you bond those ends to the file with ? I would think they'd pop off from pressure from the rod/nut tension. I just bought 50 more files today. I'm out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morben Guitars Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 As previously mentioned, the blocks are held in place with epoxy. The guy that built this told me he had to reglue them about once every 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky1 Posted August 8, 2004 Report Share Posted August 8, 2004 (edited) Edited September 19, 2004 by lucky1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted August 8, 2004 Report Share Posted August 8, 2004 Well, I must be getting more unlevel-headed from the summer heat/German beer, cuz I bought even more, I'm up to 125 now. Thing is, they got some little round files that would be great for nut-slot filing. the ones are .037", perfectly round and the same size from end to end. Other ones go to a point at the end, with the largest area .048" . There's another size, I think, but I'm too lazy to measure right now. I'm tempted to buy more to sell (back home in the USA), but I don't know if that's a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky1 Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 (edited) Edited September 19, 2004 by lucky1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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