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Sorry if i come off negative, we all have our own way of communicating...and experience with these things The ebow will work on an acoustic because it has a self contained driver and magnetic pickup...it will drive the steel strings. However, without the magnetic pickup it will not have quite the same effects as it can't draw on the neck pickups magnetism for instance. No, I haven't seen anything of curtisA since he was making a bilateral design and hoping to build it into the middle position. It has been a long time, but many people have come and gone over the years. You could try digging around to see the post where it was mentioned. Basically it was a passing comment on how he took the circuit and driver that worked for the electric in test mode and used an electroacoustic to drive it with some positive results...this is far from properly implementing it but does indicate that it should work. The phantom power has problems but not inconceivable that it should work. Mainly it is running the power all along the line of the signal and the resultant pops or noise when the power is drawn at different levels or turned off. On a very light always on preamp like the tillman, this isn't an issue. Putting the sustainer circuit off board and running the driver signals is definitely problematic...see my "sustain box" testing unit for instance which is just that really. It really doesn't matter if it is amplified as the sustainer circuit is an amplifier. So there is a risk that a vibrating top may set up an oscillating feedback effect...this will not allow for drive. Basically we are talking about squeal, or possibley howl...even if the thing is not plugged in or you add a magnetic synth pickup, if these symptoms exist, even if they are not "heard" then it won't work. The likelihood is that on an acoustic you would perhaps "hear" it acoustically...but it would still interfere with the effect. But, that is not to say that it couldn't be done. A non-preamped piezo is really going to be setting you up for problems. At the very least you will need to match the impedance for the sustainer circuit so a preamp of some kind (at least something simple like a fetzer) is going to be essential. Further, the harmonic content of a piezo and its tendency to cause noise and high transients when not filtered is also going to create a lot of headaches. At least that is an informed opinion...I imagine that you can try it and find out for yourself of course. A lot of it is presumption until people do a lot more work in doing it in the real world. But it is not simply being negative, it is informed at least to some degree...the positives are how you will overcome these obstacles...so preamping, filtering and noise reduction of piezos are some of the strategies that I have mentioned and immediately come to mind. May be...although, the GK is a magnetic pickup and if there is distortions due to magnetic coupling in the system (ie "fizz") it may not be that happy with the signal that it is getting. And of course, an acoustic guitar at any volume is susceptible to natural feedback due to the vibrating top and so limited in the volumes that it can operate at. Anyway, if people choose to take my observations as negative, so be it...with all these things they need to be tried. When making comments about "easy way" I know some are seeking solutions or alternatives to what is possible. Maybe you want an acoustic guitar sustainer and maybe you can achieve that...but it doesn't appear to be the optimum instrument for a synth controller which seems to be the direction you are really headed. Why you then wouldn't be proceeding in the more tried and tested paths set before you to achieve this aim I can only presume, I suppose. Personally am a little wary about people adapting things into unknown territory until they have the basics down successful...either they are seeking something more than what the current state of play has to offer or they are seeking an "easier way"...but then maybe I am missing something. best thing is to probably try it...build a driver, make a circuit, hook it up and see what happens! pete

That's great AL The difference between the things I was experimenting with was that I could only get my hands on small discs. By using a bar but very thin, there would be much better properties and clearly work a lot better. The big mistake some have used have been far to large a magnet...I estimated 1/8" disc to have the magnetisim of a typical anico pole in a strat pickup, some often try to use much loarger and many of them which is way too strong! You have again proven the worth of the thin coil design and appear to have wound them extremely well...apparently confirming my results and that on the tele. I'm sure people would like more detail on how you wound and potted them, bobbins and such...and what kind of circuits you are using. Perhaps even some audio. I would seriously caution people against cutting or grinding neodyminium magnets, and magnets generally. Not only can this demagnetize things, the pieces and filings form tiny magnets that can fly off with magnetic repulsion especially if it breaks or is squeezed as say in a vice or hit say with a hammer. A pair of the small bar magnets though could well provide sufficient for a core without such processing...taking care about magnetic direction. But, well done...the secret really is in the use of the small bar shaped magnets and the quality of your winding... pete

Welcome to PG and the sustainer thread Emily... No, you have done the right thing...this thread is kind of a Q&A on the project and what people are up to and thinking about, reading it can make things more confusing. Do try reading the various tutorials and stuff linked in my signature and generally around the place though. 1) Yes. I believe there shouldn't be too much of a problem although we have yet to have someone actually go all the way and do it. The only potential problem is that the coil will be less because there will be less turns to make up the same resistance due to the extra length each turn will make. 2) No. While you can save yourself a lot of problems by only having the bridge pickup (bypass switching, etc) the driver needs to be extremely close, generally as close as possible to the strings. With care it can be made pretty small and inconspicuous and potentially coloured to match a scratchplate or the guitar colour or appear as an extension of the neck (visually) it does need to be there! Looking at the Blueteleful Telecaster thread may give you an idea of how small a driver with conventional construction could be. Epoxy is not advised by me in the first instance, but even with bobbins they can be made very small by hand. The whole thing could be molded in some kind of epoxy filler material and painted or coloured perhaps to disguise it and make it a little more attractive... On my tele, I chose to leave it clear...but I could have molded it to the shape of the next door neck pickup so it could have looked like an HB in there....i could have used coloured epoxy so that you wouldn't see the insides...but I thought this worked well for the guitar and to illustrate what was in the thing and how it was constructed. Anyway...start out with the tutorials and stuff and ask as you please... pete

Hi... I tried this on a number of occasions and again on the tele driver but with no success. I've discussed the drawbacks and limitations of neomagnets before. The temptation to use them is great, but there are a lot of problems with them for this application. I'm not sure from your post if you have made the driver and it is working well...or that you just were able to make such a driver. Onelastgoodbye/tim made such a driver without bobbins many years ago but apparently did not work for him and I have had similar problems. Certainly you can make such devices, but the proof is in how they work. I have even had trouble with ceramic magnet cored drivers for some reason...most likely related to the dimensions of the stock magnets I have been forced to use....however there may be something to the idea of the coil being substantially over one pole (the end of the magnetic field) rather than around both north and south equally in terms of pushing out magnetic energy. But...more details are always welcome... pete

For the last 5 years all I ahve been thinking about is.....I've gotten to old now I don't recall... Yes...perpetual problems about EMI...but you have a bunch of problems with the electric guitar that puts you in a catch 22. Firstly...you won't stop EMI with anything non-magnetic...so copper and aluminium and such materials won't help as the magnetism will pass right through it. In fact...it can make it worse, building up eddy currents in the metals (because they are conductive) creating signals around the pickup and wires it is trying to protect. Part of the problem is that the pickup is a sensitive magnetic sensor. It's purpose is to sense any variations in it's magnetic field...specifically the vibrations of the metal strings. In this project you have pulses of energy through a lot of wires that produce magnetic fields as the power is applied and stopped as in an electromagnet. Naturally this will also be picked up by the pickup...Snap! SO...if you completely isolated the pickup by encasing it in MU metal or some other exotic approach...you may find a way to stop these electromagnetic signals getting into the pickup...however you would also stop the signals from the vibration wtrings...d'oh...Snap! Of course, moving the pickup further away seems to help. In the sustainer, the driver puts out a signal to vibrate the strings, so we move it away from the bridge pickup that we are using for the signal. Unfortunately in this project, there is no escaping the lights and their wiring. A large part of the problem is that the lights are changing. If you had a DC current, from a battery only (or heavily regulated powersupply) and did not sequence the lights...it would still make a noise if you turned it off and on...however you may have more luck while the lights were constantly on as you would not be creating fluctuation magnetic interference. There may be pickups that are less susceptible...perhaps a good active pickup...but this is just speculation...this is unlikely to work....in fact it can't "solve" the problem as any magnetic pickup is there specifically to pickup magnetic signals and and anytime you have a lot of wire and pass an AC current through it (by turning the lights on and off..ie alternating between 0 and +9 or whatever you are using as they switch) you are creating magnetic energy and this naturally will be heard by a magnetic sensor or indeed any wiring in the vicinity (you can think of the guitars wiring all the way down the cable to the amp as simply and extension of the wire in the coils of a pickup). I would be very wary of mixing the lights circuitry with the ground. You may well set up a dangerous situation and potentially damage your amp as voltage could be applied directly into the amp as well as the lights. At the very least it is likely to transmit the ground signals in the light circuits directly into the amplifier to be amplified further! ... pete

That's an interesting result..I wondered if a different wire guage might even work better with a bass...the 0.2mm works too...but not done a lot of serious work on it. Nylon strings will never work...nothing magnetic in them. Bronze wound acoustic steels have some issues which is what I was saying. Maybe...but still experimentation required and a specialized limited instrument i'd assume

You should be proud! Unfortunately, exotic metals and stuff are unlikely to solve the problem. All the wires are effecdtively making a giant AC coil...when it changes that is where you get that "tick". Maybe, if you held the lights on except when you are playing it might work...but shielding is likely to be impossible

some people are too innovative...hahaha...not bad for 1967, proving that all this kind of thing has been thought or even done before!

he has made weirder...i will try and find a way of posting from my library...one has a tremolo that wobbles the neck!

See...my memory is gone... maybe post it again...but try just switching the wires on the jack

Start with the tutorials to get a feel for it...they are linked in my sig. Then, join in on the monster thread with questions...that's why it is so huge...reading it may make things worse! pete

Unless it is shielded with conductive paint...often black...like my squier. With that giant 4p5t super switch in there, shielding can often cause a lot of frustration because it is easy for things to short out. They may have made the decision to forgo shielding in this model for this reason. Well...one of the "revolutions" of the strat was to make the entire electronics mounted to the scratchplate so the "girls" (typically) that were doing the electronics ('cause they are so good at needlework) could work separately to the guitars on the production line. Very commonly, "girls" are replaced by "asians" or "mexicans" or whoever in very many of these areas of manufacture. I can't speak to fender, but even down here 'made in Australia' often means 'assembled in australia' and these components (the entire electronics) may well be made offshore. After all, we all know that Nike use children because they are so much better at embroidering the swoop into leather...ohhhh, sorry...a bit political! Seriously...I don't know what fender does in this regard, but I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the case and the assembly was done to a standard format in the country of origin of the pickups which most likely are made over at the artec factory or somewhere...ahhaha pete

Do all the sets of lugs have the same function is the real question to understanding what happens in the middle position.

I think CurtisA tried it as an experiment. I played around a bit with the idea. There are a number of problems...one is acoustic strings have windings that are non-magnetic...it relies on the steel cores to work. Another problem is the high harmonic output and characteristics of piezo pickup systems. An up side is that the piezo system will already be preamped...the piezos are not magnetic, but there can still be some interference. I predict some other problems with an acoustic guitar. With the electric we are dealing largely with the vibration of the strings, on an acoustic the top too is vibrating. As the strings are being driven, these too will be driving the top (and potentially vibrating the driver and pickup/s) and I suspect that the result could be a kind of "howl" like feedback at any decent volume. So...not a lot of work done on this really, I suspect like bass sustainers the appeal is limited...but it certainly isn't an "easy way"... ... On the tillman. This is a well tried decent pickup design...it could work in place of the fetzer but still requires a poweramp circuit to drive the driver. We have discussed remote power...there are even products about like the x-bat. However, the sustainer is a different beast to a low current preamp. Running high power alongside the signal and sharing the earth all along the cable may well cause problems. Certainly have the circuitry remote and running the driver leads up the lead poses significant problems. But even power in the lead may cause significant noise and pop issues. I started working on something, but the project wasn't completed. It was actually quite costly to make a stereo lead of any really length and not the most practical solution compared to accommodating a battery. I'd still like to see someone fully explore this aspect...there's a bit about on this thread for reference. pete

Hahahaha.... You are misunderstanding where the tick is coming from... As the lights change there are massive jots of current causing an AC signal...a burst of electromagnetic energy. Foil shielding won't block it, it can even make it worse sometimes. You need something to stop the EMI (elctromagnetic interferance) the foil only stops RFI (radio frequency interference) The reason moving the pickup further away is that this is the most effective way of helping. The sustainer has the same problem...if the driver is too close to the pickup you get EMI...that's why it needs to be near the neck. In my passive/active sustainer switching you get a pop when you switch it off...but not if the guitar is sustaining at the time. Unfortunately, try as I might I could never completely solve the problem completely. That was the only misgivings that I have had with this kind of thing and I think I mentioned it. The only thing that will stop EMI is going to be magnetic materials...but it is not so easy as putting things in a metal box as eddy currents can be generated that you will hear as well... But still...it does look pretty cool! pete

That looks pretty impressive...do you get any noise from the switching of the lights into the amp? I'm impressed with the perseverance on this one...it certainly looks the business pete

Boy...it's hard to identify which wire without a diagram...I have no idea what you are wiring up so almost impossible to know what you might have done wrong! I'll be here when I have enough info to work from. Basically, what has been suggested is the obvious answer. The strings appear to be wired to hot. There will be two wires going to the jack...switch them! Better would be a multimeter to see what is connected to what. Mostly people get jack socket tags confused, they can look deceptive. But there may be some other fault either in the wiring scheme or not following it correctly...for that a diagram is necessary! pete

What happens to the left lug and the centre with toggle in the middle? Are you sure it is on-on-on...not on-off-on? there are some very unusal on-on-on switches and I have never seen such a complicated switch for such an easy task so not played with these types, but I do know the switch logic can be quite unlikely and you may have to use a combination of those lugs to get the required effect. That means testing every lug with the center positions to see what it is doing. that's kind of why i avoided the information, the picks help but without knowing the switch logic it is very hard to tell. I have some 4pdt 3 way switches here of a different type, and I still haven't got round to mapping the logic. I do know mine are a little strange though pete

See...you neglected to tell us that it was a 4 conductor HB with a bare wire. Generally the bare wire connects to the cover...the others to the two coils. Test that it is by seeing if there is any resistance to the bare wire to the cover...and the other wires to the cover for good measure. If the bare wire is the only thing connected to the cover, there's your "third" wire! What it needs to do is be connected to the bridge or common (back of a pot ground) so it is always ground. What is happening is that when you reverse the pickup, the cover is becoming hot, and if the strings touch it shorts out. Well...most likely, unless you have the bridge ground hot, but you would be getting a lot of noise, so I doubt it! good luck...let us know how you go pete

Tricky that...diy ebows aren't incredibly practical...but there are a few things about. Here are some threads... GN2 thread here I am known as 4real...you can see a bit of my experimentation with the thing. Paul Marossy (member here also) has a great site and owns a disected ebow...see here http://www.diyguitarist.com/...at the bottom of the page are links to the patent and other info...as well as this...Ebow Guts There was one made here...http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/inde...p?topic=34264.0...do a search on ebow and you will find heaps of threads. There are heaps of "problems" recreating this and in the end if could be easier and cheaper to simply buy one. One big problem is the enclosure, the device rides the strings adjacent to the one that's being driven. There are other concerns as well...it is likely that an LM386 circuit is used without the need of a preamp, but this is because the pickup coil and driver are desinged to be impedance matched. The ebow is often assumed, I have never played one (except for my own experiments) but I have heard and read about them. They actually tend to be used with the neck pickup and the driver will be "heard" through the pickup as it gets closer to it causing distortion and added drive (sometimes negative drive where the magnet of the pickup is opposing creating a tremolo like effect when it moves over the pup). It's different to the sustainer while obviously sharing the principle. I was experimenting with adapted relay coils to make a pickup and winding another for the driver. I didn't do a lot on it and it was kind of crude... This is a relay part deconstructed...didn't end up working the thing too much...still a few problems with it but as I have sustainer guitars, it seemed a bit silly to spend too much effort on it. I had hoped that I might find some easy way of dioing it from prewound coils like this to offer as an alternative project...maybe you can come up with something. Put DIY Ebow into google and you will see a number of references...some have been successful, most just wnat to know if it's possible. People who have been successful have found their version crude compared to the elegance of the original design... pete

That small tweak brings out the bird more...hahahha...better neck support and more heal options as well...still looks a bit weird, not necessarily in a good way! The head is going to be important. I see you have gone fretless...that was one of my ideas!!!!

The answer is to add a thrid wire that connects only to the cover. So the phase switch is only reversing the coil and the other is connected directly to ground. Alternatively, you could phase the bridge pickup as this is the same effect...the phase sound will only occur when both pickups are selected... pete

snigger...I got to quote freud at this point..."sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"...me thinks you are seeing more than was intended... Anyway...the strat is twice the man/guitar than a les paul by those standards...hahaha...pass me another cigar! pete

That's exactly what it IS!!!! Not sure, but I am pretty certain that it predates the rhodes Well, this does predate the iceman, but the iceman story is fantastic. The asian (japanese) guitar makers got together and designed the iceman in an attempt to create a design that was identifiably different and identifiable from the USA designs. I'm sure that guitars like this had an influence on the design process as much as the more obvious american explorers and firebirds...unlike gibson and fender who countered with the corvus and katana, these makers put some effort into designing something aesthetically different yet functionally very good. It's kind of ironic that they were coming out of the law suit era of making copies that F'n'G would come up with these kinds of things. It was important time for custom builders, small makers and particularly things like the Ibanez models and others. It should make one question the skill and motivation of management companies that had taken over F'n'G (CBS/Norlin) and reflect upon such decisions of other industries like guitar makers and the financial institutions that make appalling decisions for profits over product and running themselves into the ground. The recovery of F'n'G are both important lessons (and cool stories), as are makers like PRS who could see the kind of direction the big two should have and could have gone. While both F'n'G survived (just) and quality control has improved onder new management, they still have to rely on the original designs of their founders and still seem to lack the creativity to come up with new designs of merit. Anyway...Corvus...an interesting symptom of a company in decay! pete