Crusader

I did that exact same thing with a Neck to Body join on one of my earlier guitars (it was not a normal neck join) I wish I had something to show you but the guitar and photos are back at my parent's house I found the lacquer needs to be really thick to prevent the paint getting into it, and therefore the masking also needs to be really thick

Amen brother!

What do I love about guitar building? - NOTHING ...er maybe once a project is finished, but nothing I do is ever finished! I find the whole thing is frustrating, always pressed for time and make mistakes. I'm always trying to perfect ways of doing things for future projects but I have never done anything the same twice. Or if I do actually make use of templates I've made I find its really tedious So its either frustrating or boring! What's there to love about that, Nothing! But every now and then I look at my creations and I'm dumbfounded. I look at this thing and think "I made this, I can't believe it" And if I show them to other people sometimes they don't care but others are completely blown away So just once in a while I do find an ounce of satisfaction, and gotta love that!

Hey yes I tried that and came up with the same result as other methods, so that is re-assuring. I keep calculating the length of headstock to be 210mm. By the way I expand photos on the screen to match exact sizes, so I just measure off the screen. From the original picture I expand it to exact size then take a screen shot of it (Command-Shift-4) Then whenever I open that screenshot it comes up exact size On one of the photos I realised you are looking straight over the tuning pegs and I got good results from that. By the way another thing to check is the trussrod cover screws. Measured centre to centre I found they are about 53mm

Yes the angle is slightly different but they were the closest I could find, so getting in the ballpark is the best I can hope for i think the Citation is wider, it seems to be about 90mm at its widest. The other thing is it seems there a variations in the Citation headstock design. On some the strings are all parallel. On LPs and ESs the 3rd and 4th strings almost touch the middle pegs The position of the pegs is what I'm also interested in, you don't want the string length to be the same as a harmonic because it will ring-on On some Citations the 1st and 6th string pegs seem to be same as a LP, then the others further apart. While some have 1st and 6th further from the Nut and pegs spaced same as LP I've decided for myself where to position them roughly based on positions decifered from photos But of course I'm going back up the shed and spend another two hours humming and harring

Yeah cheers, so this is what I've done so far. Notice the frets match up but not the bridge? That's nuts but at least it must be somewhere in the ballpark

Oh gosh are you suggesting I use PhotoShop? It is a massive head-bender! But I have thought of doing something like that so thanks for the suggestion it is very encouraging. What I am thinking is find photos of the whole guitar and compare to a LP or ES Les Pauls have a 24.75" scale and the Citation has a 25.5 which is probably actually 25.3 like my Songwriter. Wow hang on I should just compare to a Songwriter - same scale length! Match the photos up at the bridge and nut, then everything should be in proportion thanks for the idea, cheers

"Unequal thickness" this is interesting I will have to Google it up!

I have no idea where I got that pink pencil from... But here's something that might be interesting, going back to the days before digital cameras. I believe this is the "Test Neck" I made to determine the curve of the trussrod. I whacked a few 54g strings on this thing and tightened them up to the point that I was worried the tuning pegs might snap...then laid it on its side on the breakfast bar in the kitchen and traced the curve onto an A3 sheet of paper Didn't take that many photos in those days but maybe there's one taken at the scene of the crime that just hasn't been scanned yet. Of course I had no idea if the design would work but I made a guitar and had no issues with it and have made several more since then and now I don't even think about it Getting back to the ES-137 (I probably shouldn't call it that because it has little in common other than the shape) I had an issue with the jig I use for the tenon. I had a big issue when I did the LPC3 and it came down to the fact that the big saw doesn't cut square. But any how here are the jigs I use for the tenon. You will notice that I router EVERYTHING I had some extra length with this neck so I decided to make the end connect to the underside of the top Now I scribe the neck to the body And yet another jig. (Notice the little messages I write to myself for when I get old and forgetful)... .....hang on, I'm already there! I use a Trimmer for this task I made a new jig for the shape of the neck...and I have just realised I do not have a photo of it being used! Smoothing the neck face Glue the Head veneer and Fretboard Shape the sides The story so far It was really annoying about the veneer being short although I may not need the length but if I do I will make a feature out of it. I want this headstock to be something like the Gibson Citation which is a bit longer than a LP or ES Shaping the profile. Notice the little worm hole under about the first fret. Very annoying, I was hoping it would get cut out The profile closely matches an R9 straight off the router Drilling for Trussrod washer I have a 1/2 inch washer going into a 12.5mm hole. So it needed reducing but I got there Skipping a lot of steps but the result is this. A cross between Gibson and Fender ideas Now I get to use some hand tools The other thing I've done in the meantime is the binding on the body and I'm quite happy with the results And that's it so far, I hope everyone enjoys the pictures cheers!

Thanks ... LOL Well a few more photos and details. First I will back-track a bit. The first time I did a Trussrod I copied off a Fender and I was really keen on having a one-piece maple neck. But now I'm not so keen on maple because it just seems to dominate the tone so much I've done a skunk stripe down the back of the neck a couple of times even though I have a fretboard glued on. It is a really good way of doing a trussrod because it works even without the filler-piece, and there's no timber removed from under the fretboard. However I don't like the look of it when its not necessary and it presents a problem if I want to use stain. Using clear lacquer no problem I have had a couple of problems doing the Trussrod the way Gibson do it because the filler-piece actually takes the force of the Trussrod and needs to be glued in correctly. One time I came back to the shed and air inside the channel had expanded and pushed the filler-piece out in the middle. What I need is some hollow 3/16 rod I was nearly going to do a Fender style trussrod with a skunk stripe but decided that aesthetics is more important with this one and any problems I've had before doing Gibson style I will iron them out Here's my Trussrod jig. One side is for doing Fender type and the other is for Gibson style Here is the other sider for doing a Gibson style trussrod. I hold it in with carefully place short screws where I know the timber will be removed With my 3rd Les Paul Copy the Trussrod came out a bit low so I did some careful planning With much time spent carefully planning the trussrod route it was set up like this And it bore good results so far For the filler piece I have this piece of wood with the curve and just router the maple to shape And I have my filler piece. In previous builds I routered the edge with the 3/16 round bit so the trussrod groove was circular but on this one I decided that's going overboard To avoid mishaps this time I put the filler piece in dry and ran a line along the edge so I know where its supposed to be. Glad I did this because the timber bowed out like before and I just pushed it back to the line. I still don't know if its going to work until its all strung up but I'm confident it will be okay Will post more later....So many photos!

Looking at pictures of various Gibson guitars online I notice their "Citation" has a larger headstock. Does anyone out there have any dimensions for these guitars? I haven't been able to find anything on them apart from photographs Thanks in advance http://espanol.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Archtop/Gibson-Custom/Citation.aspx

Yes a small issue once I decide it has to be done. After sanding the body level with the neck the binding was so thin you could see through it. "Do it again" is my middle name! And oh yes it is a dry fitting

The little bit of progress today. I was going to route for fretboard binding first but I decided to do the profile as I usually do at this stage, it shouldn't cause any issues. I use a 7/8" router bit (~22.2mm) which matches an R9 "round" profile. It just requires a little sanding and its done. Blending into the headstock is enough rasping and filing for me I started the body binding in the cutout and it all seemed okay... But when I put the neck in place it revealed something I over-looked. The neck is a millimetre or so less in width after shaping the fretboard. This is where order of procedure is important!

How true

With my current build I would like to have fretboard binding but I can't decide what steps to take, what I should do first. It seems most people put the binding on before gluing to the neck. They even take the fretboard off to put binding on So first up - I am not removing the fretboard off this thing! I am thinking of doing in this order 1) Router the edges 2) Cut the fretslots 3) Glue the binding 4) Router the Neck Profile You see I usually router the Neck Profile next. But has anyone got any suggestions on the order of work to do? Here is a photo of the neck in question

Thank you its very re-assuring. Yes there are incredible things you can achieve once you give it a go. But I take so long to do things, I bought that body blank in 2009. That's TEN years ago!! Cheers!

It sounds about right to me. I had the same question a couple of years ago and I read somewhere that if you can lift the neck and the body doesn't fall out it's good. No tighter no looser The bit about the copy paper is interesting, probably a good way to determine the tightness

Cheers that means a lot to me as I have seen your work which I admire very much. I will never get as good as you when spraying lacquer that's for sure!

Thank you and sure no worries, I actually have photos! I remove the base plate of the router and secure it to the setup from underneath with longer screws but same thread (At this stage I did not have the length of wood going through underneath to set the depth) For binding I simply use the router bit from StewMac which has a bearing guide When I'm shaping the top I start with a router bit with a bearing ...then change over to one that doesn't have a bearing. I have a length of wood underneath that slides in and out in lieu of a bearing Also I have a block of wood which is the shape of the Cap to adjust the height of the router and the depth. THE CAP IS NOT THIS SHAPE ALL THE WAY ROUND THE GUITAR, only the base. When I get to the waist I follow lines drawn in felt pen See the length of dark wood on the right? (Jarrah) That goes right through underneath the jig and is held by a clamp, see next photo Here you can see the whole setup again showing the Jarrah length held by the clamp on RH side I hope that explains everything about the overhead router setup cheers!

Cheers thanks, it was an awful lot of work but I like this guitar so its worth it To finish off the repair I put binding on which I really like and I want to put on any future projects. Its funny I never would have bothered with binding if it weren't for this stuff-up Also: I thought this is a very unconventional way of doing binding so I was going to ask how to go about it from here but much to my surprise there is a tutorial on StewMac how to do it this exact same way, so its not so unconventional after all! (I also want to do block inlays, but I think thats asking for trouble!)

LOL yes And that reminds me I have pictures of the progress on the Les Paul

I just realised I have neglected posting the progress on repairing this guitar. It was a massive headache but its turning out quite well I am fortunate enough to have some off-cuts of Mahogany left over from the 1990's I always thought there must be something I can do with these Oh well so I just had to dig deeper and find a piece that was big enough and got on with it!

When I bought a body blank for a Les Paul I wanted to get a bit more out of it and this is the story in pictures. Hope its interesting or even helpful although I probably use some unorthodox methods

I have a spindle sander which would be ideal for the cutout side. I just hope the body binding will hold out, it will become very thin I think it would be good to have a bit of angle on the fret edges but I could give your idea a go first I'm still thinking about binding the fretboard though because I was thinking about it before this happened Might not do anything today, just dwell on it a while

Yes I used a router - I think frets are soft enough, and if not I'm willing to sacrifice a router bit The Fretboard in now 1.5mm narrower than normal and I will make a new Nut with a smaller string spacing. I will also keep the fret ends steep. I was toying with the idea of binding on the fretboard edge and build the neck out (that idea of gluing a piece of wood either side) but I think its easier to deal with reshaping the heal etc. Just for the record the neck started off being 2mm wider than normal Here's some pictures of progress, and by the way I use a Lami Trimmer as a Router In the second photo - I think I can sand the fretboard edge to blend that in and after a coat of lacquer you won't notice it Looking at the Heel...oh well that's a headache for another day!