mistermikev

27 minutes ago, curtisa said:

Admittedly there's caveats and trade-offs to any suggestions. My first idea is effectively the same as your option of flipping the magnet in the pickup, but carries the proviso that you need to live with the look of the pickup being upside down. It does, however, save you dismantling the pickup to get to the magnet which may be off-putting to some people. If you're not adept and aware of the inner workings of pickup disassembly/reassembly there's every chance you might write off a perfectly decent Seymour Duncan humbucker in the process. 

The second option should also work, but introduces other phasing issues in certain pickup combinations. Indeed, I had to use it recently on an HSS-equipped guitar, where the split-bridge pickup sound when combined with the middle single gave humbucking performance but not the typical Strat-position-2 'quack' sound I was after. Reversing the coil order and tapping the opposite coil on the humbucker fixed the issue without having to worry about flipping magnets or rotating the pickup around. But as you note, it could have unusual tonal effects on an HH guitar if you also want to retain the 'normal' bridge-bridge/neck-neck humbucker switching pattern in addition to the humbucking inner/outer coil tap positions.

funny thing - I have ruined a few pickups trying to change from 2 conductor to 4... but have flipped/changed mags quite a few times w no issue -but I hear ya - any time you mess with pickup wire there is probably a 40%+ chance of disaster in even experienced hands.  

Option1: instead of flipping neck pickup could just use two bridge pickups, which I've done... you can get inside vs outside but don't get slugs vs screws and on a les paul with covers this just doesn't look right IMO. 

Option2: With just normal seymour set you can get the right look but you'll get 1/3 vs 2/4 and no screws vs slugs. 

Option3: this way -which is not only a hair sketchy and potentially will not sound as 'big' in the middle position... but if someone ever tries to replace that pickup w something else it would be some mental gymnastics (including myself 2 years down the road!).  On the bright side it should have the biggest tonal variation as the pickup separation is there and some say there are minor audible differences between slugs/screws... and it does "look right".  

so as always... pluses and minus's... so just another option.  

thank you again... at the least the exercise has cemented phase/polarity a bit more in my mind.

10 hours ago, Prostheta said:

+1 on steak for the occasional treat

CNC isn't the magic bullet that a lot of people think it is, however it does allow you to re-imagine processes and approaches to building. I couldn't rely on it solely, as my general skills would die a death. It has to be regarded as an opportunity to try things that might otherwise not be possible, or to bend your thinking down new avenues. I love it, especially the 5-axis stuff. Everything needs to be a challenge on some level, otherwise I'm just existing within my skillset and not progressing. But as I said, you can't go 100% CNC otherwise you end up losing many practical working skills by not maintaining them.

I worked as woodworker/solid surface fab on and off out of high school up until 2006... never really touched a router till I started building guitars a few years ago.  just pointing out - was surprised how much was still in my dna, then again I hear ya: I was very timid getting back into it!!

cnc... I was just saying it CAN do any job my other tools can do... not necc that it should or is even efficient at it!

neck is looking really great/clean.  lovely.

4 hours ago, curtisa said:

Or if you have enough slack on the pickup cable, can live with one Seymour Duncan logo appearing upside down and the slug/screw polepieces appearing in the same order as the bridge pickup, just spin the neck pickup around 180 degrees. Admittedly that probably only works best if you have a pickup that looks the same if oriented either way up, such as a Dimarzio with hex polepieces and the same colour bobbins.

Another alternative is to swap the connection order of the two coils in the wiring. There's no reason why the start winding of a coil on either north or south has to be the one that feeds the 'hot' wire of the circuit in order for a humbucker to buck the hum. Using SD wiring colours, Black (hot) -> White -> Red -> Green (ground) will work the same as Red (hot) -> Green -> Black -> White (ground), but will reverse the phase of the whole pickup by 180 degrees and allow you to tap the opposite magnetic polarity coil if you want without rotating the pickup or magnet, Again, the limitation here is that if you want two humbuckers to sound a certain way when combined (say the neck+bridge position on an LP) it won't work, but it can be useful if you're trying to split a humbucker in combination with a middle single coil for that inbetween Strat-type sound, and the middle single isn't reverse wind/reverse polarity relative to the humbucker coil you're trying to split with.

thank you for the reply sir and the thoughts. I appreciate the challenge because honestly this is something that has made my head spin for a while and mulling over it only firms up my understanding so thanks for that.

I'm not sure either of those options accomplishes what I was setting out to accomplish... but perhaps that's due to a lack of my defining that.  the goal is to be able to run both screw coils at the sm time, or both slug coils at the sm time... and get hum cancellation.  the additional constraint is that it needs to be inside coils vs outside coils ie a larger vs smaller spread between coils. 

so... if we just flip the pickup... and try to run both screw coils at sm time... we'll have two fwd wound fwd polarity singles screw coils (using fwfp as the arbitrary word to describe the first coils).  in the opposite position we'd get to rwrp slug coils.  additionally, if we flip the neck pickup (for instance) the two screw coils won't be "outside" but rather it would go screw, slug, screw slug... so we'd get less seperation ie 1/3 vs 2/4 coils and we wouldn't get hum cancellation as we haven't flipped polarity AND winding.  

in the second option... we are changing coil order only.  this would be a good option if we were trying to use the middle to wires to ground and give us a split humbucker + hum cancellation... but when we split that way we get one screw coil and one slug coil...and again you wouldn't get outside vs inside.  also might be the right option (as you mention) in a hsh config.  This is also pretty much exactly what I'm doing in my typical rotary wireup with stacked coils.  red -> gree for instance is still the sm winding direction.

I think this may or may not present an achilles heal to the idea I'm presenting above... which is... if you've got the neck two coils in series... but both neck singles have had winding AND polarity flipped... what happens in the typical lp middle position with the two sets of two coils in series?  On the one hand... the bridge 2 will hum cancel on it's own, and the neck 2 will hum cancel on their own... but combining all 4 may have some sort of phase/polarity artifact or at least I seem to recall this happening on some other winding/polarity safari!

hoped someon might find this interesting/useful

inside vs outside coils like a prs... but from seymour duncan pickups...

with semour - the neck bucker is wired exactly the same: fwd wind, fwd polarity (relative) as the bridge.  the physical wires for the neck come out on the opposite side -ie the pickup is flipped- so you get screw coils on the outside. 

so given the pair is wired exactly the sm... when you split both humbuckers (using typical red+white to ground) you'll get both outside coils active... but we don't get hum cancellation.

one way to get around this is to take either pickup and physically flip the magnet, then to wire the pickup exactly reverse to the other.  ie one goes live->black->white->red->green->ground while the other goes live->green->red->white->black->ground.

this wireup takes advantage of that modification such that in (down) normal position on the push pull... you get normal lp operation.  pull up and you get outside coils in the bridge position, and inside coils in the neck position.  Sort of gives you a "tele in combined mode" in the bridge vs a "strat position 2" in the neck.  IMO - much more useful single coils sounds that both feature hum cancelling.

40 minutes ago, ADFinlayson said:

You do love a good jig though!

lol... wut u tryin' a say??!  ok, i do.

1 hour ago, ScottR said:

Thanks man.

It made an awful noise when it hit........

SR

I can imagine.  it could've been a LOT worse right!?

nothing to add - "you got some sandin' to do son' hehe.  get some heavy grit and get to work.  factory sealer is hard to get through and takes a lot of work.  

in my humble o... walnut really looks great when it gets a hair darker from finish.  lot of things will do that - tru oil, tung oil, danish oil.  all good options imo and can be fairly easy if not going gloss.

really inspiring seeing you work thru this one.  not inspiring enough to make me think I'll try it any time soon (hehe) but inspiring none the less!  you rawk.

5 hours ago, Prostheta said:

I took the neck back to the CNC today and performed repeated facing operations on the headstock until it came closer to 21mm in thickness. This pushed the transition between the fingerboard and headstock faces back, and also the outline of the headstock. Juggling jobs meant that I didn't give prior though to the placement of the glued headstock wing tip, so I had to re-saw that off and re-glue in the correct position. Oops. Still, no harm done.

cnc is really the bass-o-matic of the the tool world.  so many tools it can do the job of!  afa wing tip... if a luthier makes a mistake and no one sees it... is it still a mistake?  also, mmmmmm steak.

well, one the one hand... I said f when I saw it too... that must have been painful in realtime.  on the other: if anyone can fix that it's you... and very fortunate it was only the back side... and now we all get a free master class in fixing a finish!  you got this.

perhaps just another illusion but the line on your fret saw looks a hair deep, then again better deep than shallow.  I always dread the part when I finish the slots cause I know the next part... well I'll be holding my breath for a while.  have a few under my belt... but still feels like pounding in frets... dressing... leveling = flirting with disaster!

8 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

Thanks man. I actually reached out to the auctioneers to see if they might be able to contact the new owner or the seller. I'd dearly love to have that guitar back.

not a lot of us get a 2nd chance at "the one that got away" so... fingers crossed for you.

53 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

That brings us here. Looks good even though the volute isn't symmetrical.

someday... I wish to be able to render things like that.  just looks wonderful.  also, that mirage - what a lovely guitar.  seeing that boo boo on the headstock just makes me want to fix it.  

that neck profile looks really flat and wide.  I like all types, but appreciate very much variants of the jem wizard 1 which looks pretty similar to that.  maybe a hair less U.  bet she'll play like greased lightening.

On 9/11/2021 at 2:53 AM, asgeirogm said:

 

I do almost all my sawing outside on the garbage bins though, the shed gets really warm on sunny days, and I don't feel like cleaning dust all the time (I store some strollers and kids bikes and stuff in there as well, either moving all of that out of there or cleaning everything when sawing, both less than ideal options).

Sawed out my template out of MDF with my jig saw. Started on the bottom and noticed the blade had bent towards the body so I moved further away from the line on the rest of the template, both because I was afraid of the blade bending again, and to make room for making up for my previous mistake. I read a little about why the blade bends and it seems I was able to prevent it from bending on the rest of the template, so hopefully I can keep that going when I actually saw the body with the jig saw later.

Here's the plexi template on the MDF, sitting on the aforementioned garbage bins workbench, ready to be routed.

I've bought the Makita rt0700cx5j kit for all my other routing needs. For the thicknessing I used a router I bought used for next to nothing, but I wanted more control for the important stuff. I've 3d printed another plate and a knob as that should give me even more control. Let's see how that turns out when I get the chance to route the MDF template

 

 

 

 

first - that is a lovely piece of mahog.  wasted as a table but brought to life as a guitar by you so... bravo.

second - I can't help but notice the cutout in your template.... I'm going to assume you will be making a secret stash spot for aviator sunglasses?  (right next to the diamond there)

third - whenever I see little knots or imperfections I think: "well no one will ever look at this and think it's veneer"!  It's those little imperfections I love because they prevent something from looking fake... to me anyway.  

nice build - rawk on.

wow, some lovely joinery going on there.  bravo.

47 minutes ago, JayT said:

Dyed and 1st coat of poly

 

 

looking good.  

40 minutes ago, Crusader said:

Thank you for your kind words! I have to confess to you and Bizman at first I was making a bit of a joke. The back will be stunning when lacquered but being inside you will never see it LOL. But taking it seriously I think lacquering outside and inside would hamper resonance so using oil is a great idea, cheers! I do think I will have the same problem with cracking in the finish. Both semi's I've built have lots of cracks and the first one has a Qld Maple top

While I'm working on it I get really carried away making corners round and so forth and I keep thinking "why not go all the way and make it fully accoustic?" But I'm sticking to the plan for the time being, its a hybrid. I'm experimenting with construction and learning from the previous build (the ES) For example instead of having a block inside like most semi-accoustics, the top is its own block and also the way I've sunk it into the sides it is its own kerfings. I saw a video recently where I think someone else has the same idea - huh!

I've got an LR Baggs T-Bridge on its way for this one so I'm hoping to get some truly accoustic sounds as well as fully adjustable intonation

for what it's worth... hook, line and sinker.  

20 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

Think about liquid soap: In the bottle it has a deep colour but the foam is always white.

I think pretty much all nitro is going to add a little amber, if not now, then later as it ages.  If you look at any vintage fender neck... right out the gate they were amber w/o any dye... and as they age they are almost orange.  The more like that vintage nitro you get... the more amber it's going to be.  It's fairly common among the 'fender enthusiasts" to take mohawk and leave it sit in the sun in a clear bottle for months to get that "instant vintage" amber.  Not exactly what I'm going for here... but I'm not even trying to avoid it either.

On the original mockup I did for this guitar, the blue was based on pictures from the sellers site of the sonoran turquoise.  The actual product was much more turquoise.  My dye tests where all done on the flamed maple and once tru oil was applied they matched the actual turquoise pretty well.  So for the record... was not trying to match my original mockup "light blue" as much as I was trying to match the turquoise inlay, and the color I ended up with on the flame maple is a good match.   

afa the quilt... this was just my prototype.  I never did any tests of the color prior to dye because it just didn't matter for that build.  I didn't think it would turn quite this green... but it's a happy accident (bob ross) as I am free to be as creative as I like on that one.  Again, this is the wood NOT the dye/tru-oil/lacquer.  Both guitars had the exact same treatment.  If I really wanted it to match the flamed body I would have A) done some color tests on that wood and/or B ) sanded it down and re-dyed it... but I have to say I really like the color.  Further, as it turns out, I have some lovely green abalone block inlay that will match it quite well and since there are no rules on that one... I'm taking the liberty to change it up.

5 hours ago, Drak said:

How do I say this gently? Pretend I'm whispering maybe...

I would never use Tru-Oil sandwiched in there the way you did.

There's no reason to have it there, its not buying you anything and can 'retard' the dye from 'popping' like it could under straight lacquer.

And can cause adhesion problems if not properly scratch-sanded or if not allowed to 100% cure before lacquer.

If I were to ever do that, I'd be waiting two weeks dead-minimum between oil and lacquer application to allow the oil to 100% cure first.

And I do mean 100%. Make that 110% fully cured with no possibility of it not being fully cured before lacquer (if it were mine).

It's just not worth it, there's absolutely zero to be gained by using it in this type of application and several risks that aren't necessary.

One of which is your dye doing weird shit on you because its reacting to an oil and not a lacquer, and there is usually a difference in reactions.

PS, There's no yellowing due to 3-4 coats of lacquer, that the naked eye could ever see.

 

thanks for the reply Drak.  I do appreciate the advice, and with all due respect to your finishing prowess, and noting that I'm not above learning anything...

I've used nitro lacquer over tru oil on literally (almost) every guitar i have built and have not had an issue with adhesion nor it drawing off any dye.  I've also read of many others who have done the sm.  The reason I use it... is IMO it pops the figure like nothing else I have seen.  Note, that I apply tru oil and then whipe it off immediately.

https://www.tdpri.com/threads/nitrocellulose-lacquer-over-tru-oil.411332/

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=510735

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/nitro-lacquer-over-tru-oil.883106/

afa retard the dye... this dye had been drawn off so many times I don't think the tru oil was taking any more of it out.  I literally whiped all the dye off on purpose using mineral spirits prior to any tru oil.  I always do that because that top layer of dye just clouds the figure imo.  I don't believe tru oil is really an oil in the traditional sense anyway... it's a lot more like a varnish and when applied light, and whiped off after, it drys within an hour or two.

afa doing wierd stuff... well that is absolutely accurate in terms of adding some amber.  no more so than nitro lacquer will ad tho.  I had actually anticipated that.  I knew tru oil would add a little bit of yellow to the mix, and that nitro would add some more, and am totally fine with that.  

I will take your dislike of my finish in stride, I'm pretty happy with it.  Actually have used dye mixed in to tru oil inside the f holes.  I had used dye mixed into tru oil on my sweet spot blue as the final finish.  

afa lacquer... my naked eye can see the yellowing in the cup so I would assume it adds some visible amber, but yes a small amount.  mohawk instrument lacquer is quite amber, unlike watco I've used before.  again, not a huge dif.  Admittedly both of these colors don't really look all that dif than they did wetted with min spirits.

7 hours ago, Crusader said:

 

What would it be like if I lacquered the inside?

i have done tru oil on the inside of several guitars... more because I figure it is a moderate amount of environmental protection. probably overkill but it can't hurt.  I also do tru oil in the truss rod cavity because there is always a hole exposing it... most of that is mitigated by a dab or two of silicon... but again... i figure it can't hurt.  the obvious caveat there is - you really don't want it getting anywhere near the glue surface.  

really love your build.  going the extra mile!

afa lam tables... I've built an awful lot of convenience counters, bar tops and nurse stations and all were mdf.  I think the reason both sides are finished is because they are any edge that gets exposed to moisture is going to be problematic for the structural integrity!  mdf will mushroom with the slightest moisture exposure.

22 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

Have you put anything else on those other than the lacquer? They were baby blue like the jeans of my teen years, now one is grassy green and the other like juniper needles! Or is it just a different lighting?

on both... did one light layer of tru oil then lacquer.  tru oil contributed some yellow, nitro lacquer contributed even more.  The light/flash is contributing in addition.  The difference between the two is just down to the wood.  the flamed maple was a very white wood, while the quilt was much more tan/pink.  

sort of hard to believe how different these are given they both used the sm dye mix.  also hard to believe I used an entire quart of lacquer only doing 4 or so coats.  Need to order more... anywho, minor update.

29 minutes ago, Crusader said:

Yes it's funny I had no idea what it would look like until I put the back on, and I had the same thought "this should sound good"

extra fat extra flavor!!

2 hours ago, Dave Higham said:

You mean by not smoothing out the steps? In my case there'll be no f-hole, so once the top is on it'll never be seen and the weight difference it would make is negligible.

(Thanks for the comments by the way.)

yes, on the first guitar I did that on there was no f hole... it was a strat style.  I had considered going at it with a file but, no one was ever going to see it so I just left it as steps.  Someone commented on it that they liked that detail and I was surprised anyone would mention it... but it actually does look kind of cool.  anywho, great minds think alike.