mistermikev

2 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

It's quite a while since I last saw that design but I've always thought it to be genious.

Another simple method for fastening things quickly using holes in your workbench are holdfasts.

right on.  the holdfast is sure a good idea but I don't think practical in this application since I'd be planing the top and don't want to avoid/hit anything.  i agree that the expanding circle is a nice idea.  I'd be a little concerned of it breaking loose which is why I'm thinking a t nut/bolt might be a more secure option.  will have to keep it low profile.

50 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

I've got that already, albeit in 25mm MDF. My concern is more about how grabby brass can be, and the prospect of sending highly conductive metal shaving around the place, especially into the commutator of an upended router....

It's 0,5mm thick brass sheet so it shouldn't be too horrendous. I should stop procrastinating and just get it screwed up before I change my mind

ah, that had no occurred to me.  I did accidentally cut some brass recently so have experienced first hand how grabby it can be!

I do NOT have the audacity to think I know anything... but I had to do something similar a while back, and for better or worse, what I did was make a 3/4" mdf copy of my ctrl cover, glued that to a another piece of mdf, then used the leftover from cutting out that copy to put 'around' the cover for router balance.  then double sided taped the cover to the copy, and taped some scrap with sm thickness to the outer edge for support. 

admittedly... probably 50 more steps than it needed to be but it worked.  interested to see what will likely be a better way to do it.

so ordered some 1/8" thick 1" x 1" x 4' square steel stock for a new planing jig(probably won't be able to lift the damn thing).  my old one has a little bit of dip in the center over 3' with a little pressure and I wanted something that would go 4' long w/o dipping. 

on my old jig... I would just screw blocks into mdf to hold things.  freq screws + blocks + double sided tape.  On my new jig... I was thinking it might be worth it to do some reusable fasteners.

here's an image of something I thought would work well:

I'm thinking something similar but putting some T bolts on the other side of the mdf and countersink a 3/8" bolt into the pivot fasteners.  Just wondering if I can get some input afa what sort of fasteners you've had good luck with?  other ideas?

30 minutes ago, ADFinlayson said:

I agree with Mikro, and if I get skint, I can alway stick it on ebay 

I was with you right up to the point of sticking it on evilbay.  The wood flows one-way around my house!  selling it... that's crazy talk!  hehe

quoting hannibal / A-team... I like the cut of your jib.

13 hours ago, MiKro said:

Look at this way Mike,

It is not the stock market. The thing is this though, hard to find wood is getting harder to find. It is also, gaining in price. So it is an investment and rarely drops in price.

mk

not sure how I missed your post the first time... sorry.  very true.  you pass on it and then somewhere a few months down you are looking for a good piece and can't find anything.  there... I feel better about my habit now!  ty for that.

7 minutes ago, ADFinlayson said:

yeah that's true, but these are the one 2 that I'm building at the same time, the others are separate projects and I work on one until I get a bit meh with it, then work on something else.

nothing wrong w that. 

lotta disparate builds going on there.  I felt like 3 was a bit too much for me on this last run... can't imagine.  cudos.

turned out real nice.  nice job.

2 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Nope, only as imported from the Netherlands. Stroopwaffels are a Dutch specialty.

For some reason I got thinking about the videos where random Americans had to show any country on a world map...

Geography def not my strong suit... I could not point out norway, sweden or finland. 

I guess just metal then!

7 hours ago, norm barrows said:

All the really good luthiers i see on youtube have wood collections - and wood vaults - and other cool stuff like that.

Heck, i saw a guqin luthier who has a 40 year stockpile!

Both Ben Crowe of Crimson Guitars and Jeff Kiesel of Kiesel Guitars have wood vaults.  They actually show the Kiesel vault in a factory tour video.

And yeah, the're full of all this beautiful stuff that they've been saving for like 10 years, waiting for the right build to come along.

Good wood is like good music, you find it where ever it happens to be. and whenever it happens to be there.   When you do find it - grab it.  You may not be able to find something as nice, once you have a build for it.

I guess you could say that even i have a "wood vault", with exactly one piece in it - a mahogany body blank.   I bought it thinking i'd need it, but without a specific build in mind.  So far i haven't needed it.   So it gets stockpiled until the right build comes along.

OTOH one must always be wary of buying cool stuff for cool stuff's sake, if you can't really afford it.   Look before you leap   - and think before you act.

I've heard of this "think before you act thing"... doesn't sound like something I'd be interested in.

11 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

I wish I had a local hardwood source, I don’t think Finland has much in the way of hardwood suppliers. We don't have Guinness or Tullamore Dew either.

hmmm. you got those strupwaffel things tho?  that's a win if so!

On 2/18/2020 at 7:26 PM, JayT said:

Drilled holes for neck,...questions, with the recessed screws I came within 3 millimeters of the back of the finger board. Is that too deep? Maybe I need shorter screws? So glad I didn’t contour the back heel!

 

I’m pretty much ready to sand and finish the body...should I drill the small holes for pick-guard, pickup face plate, etc before I paint or after? And strap button holes?

 

If you didn't bust thru (and even if you did and can fix it to where it won't happen again when you remove/restore the neck): "IT'S GOOD"! 

I can't speak for others but I figure I am almost always pushing the envelope on neck ferrules because I like to use a 1/2" pocket and would like as much thread as possible on the other side.  You do have to predrill good tho because if you don't you could bust off your fretboard.

I like to get all my holes drilled prior to finish because I like to put some true oil into the holes to seal them a bit and I also figure it will keep me from potentially scratching the finish at the home stretch.  I don't see anything wrong with doing it the other way around tho.

Just now, willliam_q said:

I wish I had a local hardwood source, I don’t think Northern Ireland has much int the way of hardwood suppliers. 

well, you get guiness/telemore dew... I get wood - who really wins there?

glad we could all agree that I'm totally right and everyone else is totally wrong.  after all, that IS what the internet is for, right?

this horse is undoubtedly dead... but like michael jackson I will 'beat it' some more.

I get bizmans point fully and I would assume everyone on this forum is here because they find building to have intrinsic value that is "worth it" for them.  To say that there is no point in considering your time as part of the value of that instrument unless you are building to sell it - well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. 

The orig focus of this thread is what is the "REAL" cost of building a guitar.  IMO the most expensive thing you put into it, even as a hobbyist, is your time.  After all, you only have so much on this earth.  You could have spent the time drinking beer or sleeping and that has value as well.  You could have spent the time with your wife watching movies.  Could have spent the time shooting sporting clays or making music.  You could have spent the time bullspitting with friends online (wait... ).  The parts/materials... those are just expenses... the real cost is your life.

If I want to compare the value of a guitar I just built to what I could buy from someone else... sure I have to factor in the amount of fun I had building it, the joy I get from showing it to someone and saying "I built that with my own two hands", the amount of relaxation it added to my life by forcing me to focus on it instead of what is coming down the pipe at work... but also the time I spent on it, the risk I took potentially lopping off a finger, the potential of ruining my back to the point I can't stand straight anymore, the reality of a wenge sliver... and least of all: the money it cost.

Surely you would agree that the "REAL VALUE" is not just the money you could sell it for?  So logically the "REAL COST" is not only the money you put into it but all your materials -including time. 

8 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

In my opinion your spare time can't be valued similarly to working hours. If they were equal, doing nothing at all should be valued as high as doing something productive you like and do voluntarily, voluntarily being the key word here. If we take your conceptual approach, even sleeping should have a price tag. How many bucks have you lost by sleeping one third of your life while conceptually you could have worked those hours at job? Same goes for eating, visiting the toilet, showers etc.

If there's no option of getting paid for the time used then there's no point counting the hours of your hobby.

-Today our course was canceled because our tutor was sick. So instead we visited my parents. Should I put a similar price tag on that visit as on the guitar building time?

I don't want to derail too much and I apologize for how much I have derailed already. 

wasn't the case here, but I freq see threads of partscasters or scratch builds where folks say "it's so much better and I only spent x" and I have the opinion that that isn't an accurate perspective because they are comparing their price for parts/materials to a price for an assembled guitar.   That's fine to have that perspective, but there's nothing wrong with factoring in your hours in that comparison either.  That's all I'm saying.  I think in most cases it probably works out pretty favorably because to get a guitar from the big boys that is a one of a kind and was built top-to-bottom by one luthier and hand made... would probably start at $3-4k.

that's just how I look at it and I promise not to force you or anyone else to see it that way (hehe).

(hope nobody minds that I spam you with wood porn)

just got this top the other day in the mail (elwoodmusic/etsy).  It is crazy dark for flamed maple looks almost torrified.  1.15" thick.   has some chatter on the top but plenty with thickness to work with. 

also hit my local haunt (peterman lumber) at lunch the other day and damn near killed myself picking through a bunch of purple heart to get to this 10' piece...

anywho... having fun and probably should stop buying wood... but I won't!

looks like you are putting shelves into your wood for the bridge pieces?  if I'm seeing that right, nice detail.  as always, some beauty work.

Just now, ScottR said:

In all fairness I got a big head start on this neck during my last build.

SR

aha!  cheater.  I built two complete necks to get my current build going... appears I'm doing it wrong... again!

Just now, Bizman62 said:

Well, it depends on your work. It's not possible for everyone to work extra hours whenever they want. Be it because of local laws, contracts, lack of work to do or other possible reasons, in any case changing your leisure time to paid working hours is not always possible. I'm self employed so the working hour regulations don't apply but there's not much one can do when no-one calls for your services.

So counting your spare time hobby hours as lost income is not always valid. 

think you might be missing the overlaying point.  not that you would actually work extra hours... but factoring into the balance what you would make conceptually if you just worked those hours at a job instead of having fun making guitars.  You also have to factor in x dollars an hour discount depending on how much fun you are having... and another x dollars for the benefit of the experience... and carry the one... yup t0tally worth it that I spent way more on building guitars than I would have to buy one!

54 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

For a hobbyist builder I'd say time is irrelevant. It's a sparetime hobby, not a job. If you go surfing, skiing, shooting, playing golf or whatever your hobby is, you don't count the hours spent as an expense.

If you build for other people for money, it's another thing. As a professional builder you're not only selling your skill set, you're also selling your valuable time to the customer.

I bring that up because people often don't factor it in when comparing the cost of their build to the cost of buying something off the shelf.  Seems perfectly relevant in that context.  Sure that guitar only cost him $800 in parts... but I bet it cost another grand in time because you could have earned 'x dollars' spending that time at your work... and just buying a guitar off the rack.

That said... when I go across town to buy a used set of pickups I often think "is this really a good deal?  $80 for two pickups that would have cost $150 shipped new but then $8 in gas and a half hour drive each way"... what do you figure your time is worth?  If I was at work that'd add 'x' onto the price of those pickups because I would work that hour and make that much money towards the purchase of those same pickups new.

EDIT: I have been accused of over-analysis from time to time...

edit/edit: where are my manors... thank you @willliam_q for the link above... also... you have an extra l in your name (hehe)

wait... I know this one I know this one... the REAL cost is measured in units of time.  Given that I probably spend 60hrs (not well spent) noodling around with my design and changing my mind and what not... and given that each guitar I have built so far was a 'one off' that I had to spend 30hrs building templates/jigs for... pretty sure my real costs are a number that I don't even want to know!

honestly this is a great idea for a thread.  I freq post my sources on everything because I freq look at other builds and wonder where someone got 'x' and what they paid.  for instance, above - shark fin inlays - would love to know your source. 

I think once you get into the nitty gritty of what you actually spent your costs go up quick.  for instance, tool wear.  a whiteside bit is $45 shipped and my orig bowl bit (use it for everything) has lasted about 6 builds... and she's about done.  so that's about $8 per build right there.  could resharpen and maybe get 6 more out but that'd cost an hour of time plus some wear on a diamond file and it's not going to match the bearing as well anymore. 

plus little things like paper towel, acetone, mineral spirits, solder, wire, dust mask, electricity....

7 hours ago, curtisa said:

Now there's a name I haven't heard of in a while.

Looking pretty tidy, Mike

thank you sir!