AprilEthereal777 Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 I have always loved the sound of a 12 string guitar, probably influenced by the famous intro to Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here". So, a while ago I decided to build a 12 String Electric, Chambered Solid Body. I posted a question a while back re Pickups for a 12 String electric and received some excellent feedback and suggestions so I have decided to do my best at documenting the build with the photos I have and where I am at today...... I have also found it tough to find much info on 12 string electrics and thought this may be a good starting point for others keen to embark on such a project. SPECS: - Brazilian Walnut One Piece Chambered Body (custom shape inspired by PRS and the Gibson SG) - Highly Figured Queensland Maple (OZ) Bookmatched top (I bought a big slab of this stuff last year and this is one of the billets that came out of it) - 5 Piece Set Neck - Tasmanian Myrtle Centre, Vic Ash lines and Tasmanian Blackwood Outers. CF Rods for extra strength and an LMI 2 way truss rod. Book matched QLD Maple headstock veneer - Madagascan Rosewood Fretboard with MOP Diamond Inlays - 25.5" scale length, 24 frets, Gotoh Hardtail 12 String Bridge - Decided on twin humbuckers, volume, tone and a 5 way rotary switch....... (I have a set of GFS 59 Alnico's, low output buckers....any other suggestions would be great) - Plan on using 2 sets of Grover locking tuners although mindful of the weight of these things...........suggestions of light weight, quality tuners? Pics with comments to follow in next post......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AprilEthereal777 Posted November 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 (edited) Here is the Brazilian Walnut one piece body, 35mm thick. I have obviously routed the body shape and the chambers........I needed to reduce some weight and also wanted to achieve some of the tonal qualities I have heard chambering can create. There was no real plan here other than to work in a balanced fashion so the weight would be evenly distributed, and strength would be maintained. Whilst I was routing away, I had this crazy idea of joining the chambers........my thinking was that by ensuring the pickup cavities were open to the chambers, that some of the sound may enter or be influenced by this network of air pockets......probably all TONE VOODOO in my head, but what the hey! This build has been named "Toneflow" on this basis. Any comments on this would be gratefully received, good or bad, it's just an experiment......... Edited November 15, 2008 by AprilEthereal777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AprilEthereal777 Posted November 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Here is the book matched and glued QLD Maple top. It is 10 mm thick..........ready to make some dust! This came out of 4m slab 38mm thick I picked up at a woodworking show in Melbourne a year ago for $180!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshvegas Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 (edited) I like the ripples in a pond effect you got going there! Infact considering I am not a fan of quilted/rippled etc guitar tops I really like it! Edited November 15, 2008 by joshvegas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AprilEthereal777 Posted November 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 (edited) Ok, top glued to body and routed flush. Bridge holes drilled (yes the middle one is supposed to be just outside the centre line )......... Edited November 15, 2008 by AprilEthereal777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AprilEthereal777 Posted November 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Ok, this work was completed today...........neck pocket routed, pup cavities done, CC cavity cover done, roundover carve done (simple I know but I don't want to detract from this top and I have carved most of my recent builds).....burn marks will sand out easily......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AprilEthereal777 Posted November 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Unfortunately I don't have any earlier shots of the neck billet or FB blank etc.....the FB blank came from LMI and the neck timbers from various suppliers in Melbourne. I really like building guitars with only say, 3 timber varieties but on this one I really wanted to use a wide variety and showcase some really awesome timber.........I am a bit concerned though about the contrast between the neck colors and the body.........this is one of my favourite parts of any build......you never know exactly what you are going to get figure and grain wise with the neck until you cut down to depth and start carving! And yes, I have oficially fallen in love with Madagascan Rosewood.....2 black lines run parallel with the FB all the way down....wicked! The cream binding was chosen to add a vintage look......any suggestions for pup rings?.......tone and vol knobs?........the bridge is chrome, the pups I am thinking of using have chrome covers......don't want too much chrome though....ideas??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AprilEthereal777 Posted November 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 (edited) Tonal Qualities of Timbers Chosen. I am trying to achieve a warm, full and resonant tone......trying to avoid that fender twang. In hindsight, I should have perhaps run with a 24.75" scale, however, the 25.5" will hopefully provide those 'bell' like tones Fender are famous for. I have had no experience with Brazilian Walnut before but have found it be one of the most pleasing timbers to work with....routs beautfully, smells AWESOME, router bits don't burn it etc. it is also quite dense.....router shavings are fluffy as!.........did I mention it smells nice I have read that Brazilian Walnut should provide a warm tone and as it is 35mm and the top is 10mm, should be the dominant factor in that dept. QLD Maple to me is MID focused, tending towards bright, so that should balance things nicely. Rosewood of most varieties is fairly warm so should be ok there..........neck timbers should provide a complete balance of the tonal spectrum. Any thoughts on the timber combinations? Also, what humbuckers do you recommend for a vintage, natural tone emphasing the warm side of things? As stated before, I'm leaning towards Alnico low output pups......GFS are ok, have used some of their other pups before but not the 59's......... Also, any thoughts on electronic tricks that I could employ to achieve a wider variety of tonal options? I'm thinking 5 way rotary with volume and tone but as you can see, I have plenty of room in that Gibson sized control cavity to fit a few more bells and whistles in. Any thoughts? Thanks people. That's all for now. I hope to have the frets installed and the neck carved and test fitted before my next update........ Edited November 15, 2008 by AprilEthereal777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anderekel Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Dude, I think some aliens got at your guitar, there are crop circles in it Lookin' good, I like the little back cutaway thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAK Guitars Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 I actually kind of like those burn marks on the top. It would be a cool kind of natural binding. If you havent sanded it off yet, it might look cool if you kept it. Looks great though, I didn't really feel the shape at first but once I saw the top on it, wow! Great Job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbrown Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Nice work there Ethereal. Nice choice of timbers. Definately got me thinking with your chambering design. Is there anything significant with how it has been chambered? If it's a trade secret, best keep it to yourself, but it did get me thinking. I like the shape also. Can't wait to see a lick of finish on that top... pop!. Cheers, Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesy Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Looks great. I like it when timbers smell great while you work on them. The smell of the New Guinea Rosewood I used is very distinctive too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AprilEthereal777 Posted November 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Thanks for the positive comments guys. Nice choice of timbers. Definately got me thinking with your chambering design. Is there anything significant with how it has been chambered? If it's a trade secret, best keep it to yourself, but it did get me thinking. Pete, I don't know whether anything significant has been achieved with my idea of joining the chambers and I'm not worried about sharing the ideas around. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that ANYONE is making any SIGNIFICANT dollars out of luthiery other than PRS, GIBSON, FENDER and the Chinese (oh OK Stew Mac shareholders must be pulling in a buck or 2) so I'm not too worried about trade secrets. I absolutely do this for fun and hope that someone may buy the odd guitar here and there and get as much enjoyment out of playing it as I have making it. One of the main reasons I decided to post this thread was to hear from experienced builders such as Melvyn, Perry, Drak, Mattia, Daniel Sorbera etc and heaps of others to see whether they could see any logic in this......perhaps it is already done, perhaps it is a load of tone voodoo hogwash .......it just made logical sense at the time that it MAY allow soundwaves/tone to flow through the body, potentially resulting in a more resonant sound than just a standard solid body, or standard chambered hollow body electric guitar? I'd love to hear from anyone with any experience in chambering, tone theory.....Perry I believe has done a lot of experimenting and whilst I don't want his "trade secrets", a nugget or 2 woud be great Anderekel, crop circles made me laugh big time...good one! WAK Guitars....interesting that you liked the burn marks....sorry mate, they are gone! Update pics to follow (including initial neck carve but more to do and some light top sanding to 120 grit and a quick rub with 180....this top spins me out!) and again, anyone with suggestions for stain colour if at all, pickups, wiring mods and tricks etc...that would be awesome! Thanks again everyone for their interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 (edited) That's one of the sexiest shapes I've seen in a while!!! my thinking was that by ensuring the pickup cavities were open to the chambers, that some of the sound may enter or be influenced by this network of air pockets...... Honestly, I don't buy it. But that's not really what matters. You're thinking independently and coming up with something new (as far as I know). Let us know if the pockets do seem to influence the sound at all. My thinking is that a pocket of air doesn't do you any good (other than weighing less) if the wood around it is too thick vibrate the air in the way that it does on fully acoustic instruments. That is, the pocket of air in there is essentially dead unless the top is driving it against the back like on an acoustic guitar. Does the air really move in chambers within solidbodies? Also, sound travels better through solids than air, right? Edited November 18, 2008 by Geo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foil1more Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 I have a suggestion for color. I've been thinking of this since I first saw the wood on this guitar. Since the figure ripples out from the back cut away, like a stone dropped in water, I would go with blue. It would look cool if you could do a burst either light to dark or dark to light, following the figure of the wood. So instead of the burst being centered around the center of the guitar, it would be centered around the back cut away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AprilEthereal777 Posted November 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 Thanks Geo and Foil1more! Geo, that's exactly what I was after...someone with more knowledge than I about such things! So that's how an acoustic guitar works (top driving sound onto back and assuming out the soundhole)......I had never really thought about this and it just seemed an interesting topic......you are right, at the very least, I have reduced weight and that is important as Brazilian Walnut aint' light....and this body aint' small!... ....speaking of weight, the Grover Tuners I was going to use come in at a massive 280gms each according to Stew Mac x 12 would be over 3kg's of weight hanging off the headstock!....so found some Gotoh mini's locally that seem to be great quality and are only about 170gms....will save about 1.3kgs in weight. Was going to go Kluson style for real light weight but the machines take up too much space........I am using a Chrome Gotoh hardtail 12 string bridge so the chrome Gotoh tuners will compliment nicely. Foilmore1 I'm very keen on the blue. I agree, it could really enhance the whole pond effect......Queensland Maple is very golden/yellow in it's base colour so I am worried the blue would end up green! Hard Rock Maple is very white and takes stains really well as there is no colour conflict going on. Will have to research this in a big way if I'm going to try blue. I also remember Perry or Drak saying at some point that blue is one of the hardest colours to pull off.....hmmm....reckon I should post the query in Finishing? Also......best humbuckers for this build....hmmmmmm No build progress today unfortunately.....other business going ballistic! Thanks again guys....Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foil1more Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 I've heard that you may have to bleach the wood to get a good blue. I may need to do that on the maple top on my guitar but I haven't gotten to testing stains and finish yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 Geo, that's exactly what I was after...someone with more knowledge than I about such things! So that's how an acoustic guitar works (top driving sound onto back and assuming out the soundhole)......I had never really thought about this and it just seemed an interesting topic......you are right, at the very least, I have reduced weight and that is important as Brazilian Walnut aint' light....and this body aint' small!... Well, I am flattered. How an acoustic works... I think... sound does not come "out" the soundhole. Sound comes off the flexible top of the guitar, which is activated into vibration by the changing torque that the strings apply to the bridge (the strings want the saddle to fall flat against the top). The soundhole is like a port on a closed speaker cab (or like the open back on an open cab), allowing the air volume inside to "breathe". It's the stiffness of the air inside the acoustic box that causes it to resonate between top and back. I think chambers within a solid body could influence the tone... just not in the way people think. I don't think that the proportion of chambered space in the body tells you how much the guitar will sound "acoustic". The plates have to be able to vibrate freely. (Which is why an over-braced acoustic sounds "constipated".) Keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AprilEthereal777 Posted November 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 http://undergroundmusic.com.au/index.php?m...products_id=563 Perhaps one of these Dimarzio Humbuckers from Hell in the neck position.....this is the sort of thing I am after. Anyone heard of these before? I have never owned an axe with Dimarzio pups...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AprilEthereal777 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hi Folks, Well it has been some time but I have finally got this 12 String build finished! Specs as follows: - Queensland Maple Bookmatched carve top (12mm) - Brazillian Walnut One Piece Body (32mm)....chambered with custom "Toneflow" design (small gap between end of fret board and pup ring allows natural sound to enter the chambers - Madagascan Rosewood fret board with 24 Frets and diamond MOP inlays, vintage cream binding - Queensland Maple book matched headstock veneer, angled 12 degrees, volute - Blackwood, Vic Ash and Tasmanian Myrtle set neck, CF Rods, LMI truss rod - Gotoh light weight tuners and Gotoh 12 string bridge - GFS Alnico Vintage '59 pickup set - 3 way toggle with push/pull switches on volume and tone for single coil option and opposite coils in tap mode Sound? RESONANT!!!!! This guitar has huge tone and sustains for days, I am absolutely delighted with it This is a great ACOUSTIC instrument. Just strumming away with no amp is just amazing. The electronics setup I am also really pleased with. The Alnico pups provide a warm vintage tone without going over the top with output. As expected, this build pumps out volume naturally so the low wound pups are a perfect match. The versatility of humbuckers has also proved to be a rewarding step. I hope to record some sound samples soon and get these up on the web so you can check out the tone for yourself. Whether or not the "Toneflow" theory has added anything is an unknown unless I build another exact instrument without the toneflow setup.........it still seems logical to me though that this combination of design steps would help to bring the Braziliian Walnut tone from the body into the mix more so than traditional build methods. Comments always welcome and cheers for the interest, Jon Ward. Visit My Website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foil1more Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
factory5150 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Whats the string gauges? Guitar looks awesome man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Lovely guitar... I prefer this idea of tone chambers...or just to lighten up a guitar than a full hollowbody that many people seem to go for. Not sure about the joining up of the cambers, but it is a good idea to join hollows together as the air inside can expand...probably doesn't matter, but is probably worth joining them up to the pickups or control cavity to let the air and the sound breath. I think i have seen ads for warmoth strats with routed grooves in them and a drop top. With a thin top, there is plenty of glue and support to it and a lot easier to do than a full hollow. These kind of chambers also allow for any kind of body shaping (belly carves and such) if they are planned right. Anyway...from one melbournite to another...well done...and nice use of aussie woods pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewey Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I love that top, looks like the guitar is melting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andronico Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 This guitar is BEAUTIFUL !!! But please change the trussroad cover and the control cover for covers made using wood, just my 2 cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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