Maiden69 Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 I like what you are doing, but you will need to open up those holes in the back and on the mahogany more in order to slide the pups in from the front. I was goingt to make that for a guitar I'm working on now, but I decide agains it at the last moment. Maybe for the next. Keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted June 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 yeah Maiden, I'm going to mill some chambers into the mahogony and the pickup openings will run into the chambers. Kind of like what Perry did on the vine. I'm also planning on carving the top before I glue it down. That way I can make sure my pickups go in the way they should before i'm committed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonebucket Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 (edited) jer7440 interesting! have you thought about scanning a les paul top? Edited June 18, 2005 by tonebucket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted June 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 jer7440 interesting! have you thought about scanning a les paul top? ← I have thought about it, but I don't have access the necessary equipment to do it. I'm pretty happy with the surface I came up with. It's a little more curvy than the regular LP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonebucket Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 [ I have thought about it, but I don't have access the necessary equipment to do it. I'm pretty happy with the surface I came up with. It's a little more curvy than the regular LP. ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted June 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 First I found a DXF outline of a LP. I cleaned up the datat so it was all arcs and lines, instead of a bunch of little line segments. Next I used some basic info I knew about the LP top to get started. I knew the top should be about 3/4" thick at the thickest point. I knew that the shallowest point of the carve went down to 1/4 of an inch at the edge. I knew that the neck angle was about 4 deg starting at the end of the fretboard. I knew that there was another angle that tapered from the bridge to the end of the fretboard. The first surface I created was the 4 deg surface where the neck joins the body. On the LP the fretboard is glued to the body so this surface needs to be correct. From there I created the angled surface from the bridge to the edge of the fretboard (some times calle the pickup plane). After all that was done I started creating 3d curves that went from my major thickness of 3/4" down to my minor thickness of 1/4". These curves became the borders for my surface patches. If you were to look at my cad work for the top, you would see that the top is made up of 12 individual surface patches. This was all time consuming to say the least. I did all my work in a cad/cam program called mastercam. I've been reading alot lately about people using a program called Rhino 3d to design guitars. I downloaded a trial of Rhino but I really haven't had time to figure it out. I don't have a problem sharing my surface file. I was actually thinking of donating it to the download section of the forum. Does any one know how I would do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonebucket Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 (edited) First I found a DXF outline of a LP. I cleaned up the datat so it was all arcs and lines, instead of a bunch of little line segments. Next I used some basic info I knew about the LP top to get started. I knew the top should be about 3/4" thick at the thickest point. I knew that the shallowest point of the carve went down to 1/4 of an inch at the edge. I knew that the neck angle was about 4 deg starting at the end of the fretboard. I knew that there was another angle that tapered from the bridge to the end of the fretboard. The first surface I created was the 4 deg surface where the neck joins the body. On the LP the fretboard is glued to the body so this surface needs to be correct. From there I created the angled surface from the bridge to the edge of the fretboard (some times calle the pickup plane). After all that was done I started creating 3d curves that went from my major thickness of 3/4" down to my minor thickness of 1/4". These curves became the borders for my surface patches. If you were to look at my cad work for the top, you would see that the top is made up of 12 individual surface patches. This was all time consuming to say the least. I did all my work in a cad/cam program called mastercam. I've been reading alot lately about people using a program called Rhino 3d to design guitars. I downloaded a trial of Rhino but I really haven't had time to figure it out. I don't have a problem sharing my surface file. I was actually thinking of donating it to the download section of the forum. Does any one know how I would do this? ← I use Rhino 3d you can create bezer curves instead of having to use archs, handy for a LP top. jer7440 I think the thickest point on the top is at the tail piece? I would appreciate your surface file Edited June 20, 2005 by tonebucket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted June 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Why don't you shoot me a PM with your email and what file type you would prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted July 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 Well I go to do some more cutting. Last night I made a control cavity and some chambers in the mahogany body of my guitar. I also put in some holes for string ferrules. This morning i mounted up my quilted maple top, so I could start cutting the carve. I got about half way through and disaster struck. A glitch in the program made the cutter take about a 1/2" deep gouge right out of the center of my top. . Now I'm taking inventory of what I can sell on the bay to try and raise some money for a new top. What a great start to the long weekend. NOT!!!!! I'll post some pics later, I don't even want to look at it right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted July 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Hey I finally got some time to get my pics from this weekend on the web so here we go. When I milled out the mahogany previously I forgot to put in the ferrule holes. So I milled a pocket in a base board to locate the guitar body and I put in the ferrule holes. ferrule holes Each hole is countersunk (sp?) so the ferrule is flush with the back of the guitar. Next I milled another pocket in my baseboard to hold the guitar when I flipped it to the other side. Then I flipped the guitar and cut the control cavity. If you remember from before, I had cut around the cavity cover with a 1/16 end mill so that when I cut my control cavity from the other side I would be left with a perfectly matching cover. In this pic you can see the freshly cut cavity with the perfectly matching cover in the bottom. control cavity You can see that the cover is just hanging on by a sliver of wood. This easily broke away with a chisel. Next up was some chambering to reduce weight because I am a wimp. chambers Then the pickup routes were added. (I'm still trying to have top loaded pickups like the ormsby vine.) And this is where i ended up Fri night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted July 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Moving on the Sat. It was time to carve my quilted maple top. Things seemed to be going well until the end of the first surface program. For whatever reason there was a glitch in the program and the tool made a gouge across the center of the top. Alright time to make lemonade, right? I think to myself well I'll just make the top thinner. No big deal. The edges will be thin but I will cut a binding ledge and all will be good. Wrong. If I had glued the maple to the mahogany first, this may have worked out, but I was holding the top on with 3 locating pins and some double stick tape. As soon as the edges started to get thin they started to blow out because they weren't attached to anything. Kinda like this. edge blowout Well, back to ebay for some more maple. Did Drak let the WOD out on the prowel last weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Dude that sucks big time. Sorry to see that, I would have just let it be like that ans practice a bit on smoothing out the carve while at the same time ordering a new top. Do you have Durawoods main site address, if you don't PM me and I will send it to you. I thin khe sends it to everyone that has bought from him, so I think you may have it. He got a lot more nice r pieces in the site, but a bit more expensive that if you get them at the bay, the only draw back of the bay is being out bid or having somebody raise the price beyong what you might want to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted July 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Hey maiden thanks for sticking you head in here. I really value your opinions. I do have the link to durawoods site, but most of what he has had on there is way out of my budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Jer, I SO recognize that router pass!!! I ruined my first cherry back with a go to command w/o a raise z to clearance. Welcome to the club. Project looks good looking forward to seeing it finished. dkw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCKETROB Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 jer, I feel ya! I do machine programming every day. Nothing worse than a program that takes off on its own. Great work by the way. Nice mill, cool design, beautiful wood. Keep it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted July 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Thanks Donald and Rocketrob. Already have my eye on a new piece of maple and I know what I did wrong, darn check surfaces. Oh well keep pluggin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorecki Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 I'm bone ignorant when it comes to CnC machines. A couple of questions if you don't mind? What coordinate system is being used (left, right)? Also, what (or I should say where) is origin? My first thought would be smack in the middle where the bridge will be on top of the top but I'm not sure. I haven't used my 3D Studio MAX in a couple of years and it sounds entertaining to model a body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted July 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 I'm bone ignorant when it comes to CnC machines. A couple of questions if you don't mind? What coordinate system is being used (left, right)? Also, what (or I should say where) is origin? My first thought would be smack in the middle where the bridge will be on top of the top but I'm not sure. I haven't used my 3D Studio MAX in a couple of years and it sounds entertaining to model a body. ← I hope i am answering your question, The cnc machine works on and x,y,z coordinate system. If you look at my picture with the big gouge in it, the gouge is parallel to the y axis. Left or right of the gouge is the x axis, and z would be in and out or depth. As far as the origin goes, in my process the origin is actually the corner of my base board or the board everything is mounted to. I find the corner of that base board and this becomes 0,0,0 (x,y,z) and every thing in my cad program is located in proximity of that corner. This give me a good physical point to locate to in the cnc machine. Dude break out the software and model something up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorecki Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 I hope i am answering your question, The cnc machine works on and x,y,z coordinate system. If you look at my picture with the big gouge in it, the gouge is parallel to the y axis. Left or right of the gouge is the x axis, and z would be in and out or depth. As far as the origin goes, in my process the origin is actually the corner of my base board or the board everything is mounted to. I find the corner of that base board and this becomes 0,0,0 (x,y,z) and every thing in my cad program is located in proximity of that corner. This give me a good physical point to locate to in the cnc machine. Dude break out the software and model something up! ← Perfect!, so it's a left handed system with origin starting in the corner (likely no negative x or z used). I typically do that for 2D sprites but for 3D 0,0,0 is the center of the world. I could just model and then move it..duh. Gee, you can probably put a box around the model to size perfectly for the body blank needed if you want too? Ugh, I've gotta jingle 3DSMAX people and get my licence free'd from one of my old systems (like I said, it's been a couple years). Cool, tanx! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted July 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Gee, you can probably put a box around the model to size perfectly for the body blank needed if you want too? Yeah that's right on. I measure my body blank or my work board whatever i am using for my corner then I divide that number by 2. Then I offset from the center line of the guitar and voila, the guitar is centered on the blank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 [We work that way also. Building a box around an irregular shape is by far the simplest way to register that we have found. We use x,y lower left corner and z registered to the top of the work surface. All cutting becomes neg. z dkw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlrhett Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Really interesting thread. I too would love to get a guitar CNC'ed probably from the PG member who is offering up his machine. The problem I have is I can't find a 3d CAD/CAM program that cost less than a PRS guitar with all the bells and wistles TurboCAD (in all the software stores and such) reserves "lofting" for their $800 "Pro" version. The basic version only allows you to extrude a 2D shape straight up. That wouldn't work for carving a top. Does anyone know of a 3D modeling program that won't break the bank and that can export to .DWG or even g-Code? I keep seeing all these terrain making features on computer games and think, "this would be GREAT!" If you are not familiar, mostly they are customizing parts of computer games where you start with perfectly flat earth represented isometrically. You click on a spot and click to "lift" it. The rest of the terrain falls smoothly away until you have your "hill" as high as you want it. Imagine creating carve top designs that easily! Imagine how creative you could get! Anywho, back to reality. Is there a 3D program people can recommend that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorecki Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Anywho, back to reality. Is there a 3D program people can recommend that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? Google MilkShape, I believe it's still around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MzI Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Sketchup 5.0, trial version is like 8 hours still I believe. MzI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Rhino 3D seems to be a good program that a lot of builders are using nowdays. You can download an Evaluation Period Version here at their site. I've tried it out and it was fun working with, although I have no CNC machine, so I went no further with it. Nice HAAS system you have access to!! I think there are quite a few guitar builders who use them, including Joe Driskill. Not only is it used to cut out the necks and body, but he uses it for cutting his fretslots, inlays, cavities, etc. etc. He even uses his to cut out the his bridges for him, although he has to completely retool the HAAS for metal working. Must be nice to have a HAAS though, very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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