Ash Body, Tinted/clear Finish

[Guitarfrenzy]

Just remember to try it on scrap first. Sometimes the best of plans don't work.. lol I personally wouldn't use any MiniWax products on a guitar finish, but that's just me. Also, don't forget that the ash doesn't stain good, that's why it's better to have your color tone mixed and sprayed on. If I was going for a light gray with the grains showing out, I'd still mix a light bit of color tone gray with my lacquer or whatever I was using and spray it on. Every company I talked to before doing my guitar said the same thing, spray ash, not stain. That includes Fender, PRS, Gibson, etc... You can stain maple perfectly, but ash is a total different beast. Another thing to think about is that the MiniWax wipe on poly has been said to take forever to dry and when it does it's tinted some. I think it was Brian who had said he didn't recommend using the MiniWax stuff. Maybe someone else can clear this up. You can do what you want to do, but just try it on scrap first, because you might be sorry you didn't.

[daveq]

Hey rick -

Have you seen a pic somewhere on the web of something similar to what you're after? I'm far from being a finishing expert but if you can find something like that, I'd bet some of the experts here could tell you exactly how to do it.

I'm just confused about what look you're trying for from the descriptions. Are you looking for a solid (painted) look with two colors or are you looking for a solid (grain) and transparent (rest of body) kind of look?

Even with the help of the finishing experts here, I still find myself needing to practice on scrap - even if you can't find the same wood I think it's worth experimenting.

I'm very interested in what you're trying to do - if you can provide some pics/links of similar guitars I'd love to see.

I hope it turns out well - good luck and enjoy!

DaveQ

[Guitarfrenzy]

That's what I'm trying to figure out also Daveq. I can't see why if your wanting a very light gray tint to your wood you couldn't mix it with lacquer or whatever you was gonna use and spray it on. With ash spraying it on still looks the best in my opinion. Have you tried the Miniwax stuff before?

[rick_here]

DaveQ-

Thanks for the yer-interested! Here's a pic of a 1971 Telecaster (that had been modded over the years) I saw on an eBay-auction:

As you can see the grain is filled & "highlighted." And the color for this guitar is some shade of "brown" (or a dark tan). But not only are the deep grains filled, the lighter or smaller ones also have their grains "highlighted." You can see basically "all of the wood's grains"....what the body's wood (itself) actually looks like.

In a nutshell, this is just about exactly how I want mine to look...but in Gray (and hopefully minus all those dreaded mistakes)!

Edited October 21, 2004 by rick_here

[rick_here]

Actually, if you look at where someone has sanded near the pickguard & control plate (near the bridge too)....it looks like the brown has been sanded off. But most of the black (most likely a black grain-filler)---it is still "there." This was why---originally---I thought the correct order would be: (1) Fill the grain with StewMac Black Epoxy; (2) Sand-That-Down & Stain it Gray; (3) Apply the clear-coats (without any tinting in them).

Matt-

I can't see why if your wanting a very light gray tint to your wood you couldn't mix it with lacquer or whatever you was gonna use and spray it on. With ash spraying it on still looks the best in my opinion. Have you tried the Miniwax stuff before?

Due to the weather and the fact that I don't have any spraying equipment (and just got fired, so prolly won't be buying any anytime soon---but nevermind that)....I'm gonna hafta do this inside (in my bathroom!!!) using the Wipe-On-Method.

My cousin works as a "Home Improvement Person" for a company that has lots of real estate here, locally. (Aka, she's an interior decorator). Among her other assignments, she re-finishes old kitchen cabinets and other wood-stuff all the time. Over the years she's been doing this she's tried several different finishes. For the last 3 years or so; the only finish she ever uses has been Minwax Wipe-On Poly...and both she, her boss and the folks who later live in the apartments or homes; they really-like how the Wipe-On Poly looks.

I'll have to ask her if she has ever "tinted" it. But as far as I know she always applies it over stains.

I've never used Minwax Wipe-On Poly myself. But here at PG (and elsewhere) I've read about how folks have (on their guitars) and are totally happy with it. "Rock Hard!" and really great looking! (as the reviews have gone).

Hope this helps, as y'all are helping me!!!

thanx, some more

rick

><>

Edited October 21, 2004 by rick_here

[daveq]

Ahh, I see!

Again, I'm no finishing expert so I can't comment on how that was done.

One thing I can suggest (since you are not spraying) is to look at Tru-Oil as a possibility for the clear. It just wipes on and really looks great. If you are set on the wipe on poly though - go for it! The poly would probably give bettter protection anyway. I just finished a guitar using tru-oil and was very happy with it.

I'm sure someone will explain how that can be done - thanks for the pic!

DaveQ

[Setch]

If you grain fill with epoxy, then stain, you will inevitably get a blotchy result, since the epoxy will inhibit the absorbtion of the dye (even if you think you've sanded it all back). Couple this with the naturally blotchy nature of dyed ash, and you can rule out epoxy grainfiller followed by dye.

If you dye first, then grain fill and sand back, you will inevitably sand through the dye, which will result in a blotchy, uneven colouring. You won't be able to re-dye to even things out, since the epoxy will inhibit the absorbtion of the dye (sound familiar?).

As GF and others have said, the way to achieve the result you are after is to grain fill with a dark filler (like the black epoxy) then spray tinted clear until you are happy with the colour, then spray untinted clear over the top. This won't blur or hide your grain any more than applying a stain or dye would.

I know you would prefer a solution which allows you to get a grey colour and dark grain without spray equipment, but this simply isn't going ot happen. I suggest you investigate buying some nitro-cellulose lacquer, some alcohol soluable dyes, and a preval spray system, or settle for a different finish.

[Guitarfrenzy]

Setch, maybe he will listen to you, but sometimes people have to try stuff out in order to be convinced of something. Let me reinterate here, from my experience, Ash doesn't dye good, it's very blotchy when directly stained or dyed, just as Setch has restated also. That being said, you might have better luck than us who have tried before to dye the wood directly but didn't get a quality finish that is anywhere near acceptable. If that's the case, great, you did a great job. Just post your pics. But if your like the rest of us, you might find Ash to be very troublesome unless sprayed. Either color or transparent that doesn't matter. What matters is that you get a consistant shade or color that looks great. That Fender guitar you have a picture of, wasn't grainfilled with black epoxy. I can almost guarantee you that whatever grain filler they used, it was clear. What makes the grain stand out is the color toner that's mixed with the clear lacquer. I'm not sure what color they used, but it might have been vintage amber from what I can tell. Anyway, it really just depends on how dark you want the grains to be though. What I'm saying is that sometimes you don't need to tint the grainfiller.

[rick_here]

I've been doing some reading & research---What Y'all have said/ been saying---and like well, at a whole bunch of other places (including @ ReRanch, how Ppl have done Nitro finishes, (DaveQ's) Tru-Oil Method, how this other guy used some Tinted Tung Oil Stuff that can be mixed with Poly, a "Preval" Option )...and the such-likes & so-on's.

So, (as I keep on saying "thanx")....Thanx!

It's gonna be about a month before I actually get to the finishing part of this project (basically my 1st, unless I could count the Carvin Bolt-On I "made")....

I've found pics, not here @ PG, of what Matt (GF's) been saying about how Ash doesn't absorb stain (or much of anything else very well). Point well taken; I'm Advized! So I don't think I'll wind up doing anything Really-Stupid, thanx to all of your help (I won't just yet anywayz)......LoL.

I'll get my camera ta goin, post some pics and run what I've come up with by y'all again...here in a couple, three weeks or so.

PS, DaveQ-

I've got two other bodies for future-future projects (after this one). I'd like to hear how that Tru-Oil went either here or if you have a link to another thread (?). Feel free to message me here (or on Yahoo, though I'm ususally "invisible" when online) or just whenever you find the time, if ya do.

Thanxalot everybody!

rick

><>