psw Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Not ready to go with this one...got a few other projects on the go! What I've always wanted to do is make a surround sound stereo guitar amp. Basically, I was thinking of a very compact low powered amplifier. From this a power amp to some satellite speakers. Recently I got hold of a stereo 200 watt power amplifier which could drive the PA like side of things. What kind of direction should I go with the preamplifier side of things? Modelling, solid state, tube. How about effects, I always have a little delay on, thought I could bounce it across the speakers. Anyhow, give me some ideas. It won't be on the go till next year. psw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Something that might be interesting is to have a hybrid tube/SS preamp, perhaps switchable between the two and being able to combine them as well. I like the idea of a built-in delay. That's one effect I almost can't live without. AFAIK, the delay would most likely have to be digital as it is hard to get any long delay times (> 300mS) out of an analog (BBD) chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Actually, I love my old Ibanez AD100 BBD delay. It gives the ambience that I like in a natural kind of way. Digital's great also for a tiny delay though, to give a stereo effect. I used to use chorus in the eighties (like everyone else) all the time. Then I discovered that short delays and a bit of finger vibrato gives a much better, subtle and controllable effect! I once had a set up with a Roland GA60 amp running it's 12" chrome dome a 15" paper cone extension box being run through a trashed tube School PA amp. The signal split through an EH Clone Theory (great box!) with the effect side running to the Roland. This gave a solid bass and a jangly high end and the sound was massive! That kind of thing is what I'm looking for with this project. The two channels could also be used for two guitars (100w each) or for a guitar / vocal setup. The idea is that it should be able to be relatively clean. It would be neat to be able to mount say a pair of 12"'s on mic stands and have a kind of monitor from the amp proper with say a pair of inbuilt 8"'s. Still thinking over the possibilities...hmmm psw can you still buy BBD delay chips...know of any circuits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 (edited) can you still buy BBD delay chips...know of any circuits? Sure. Here is two circuits that I have heard mostly good things about: http://geofex.com/PCB_layouts/Layouts/pt2399.pdf Part of the cool http://www.geofex.com website AND http://generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/a...8_schematic.pdf Part of of the cool http://www.generalguitargadgets.com website Here is where you can buy BBD chips: http://smallbearelec.com/Ordering/ICsDelay.htm Actually, I like this one a lot myself: http://www.diyguitarist.com/Images/ArionSAD-1.gif You can still get the chips at smallbear for $16 each. (!) Edited November 24, 2004 by Paul Marossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Thanks paul that's great...I'll check them later. Meanwhile, I checked your Web Site diyguitarist.com and it's very impressive. I'll take the time to recommend it here and I'm flattered for your input and interest cheers psw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotrock Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 I'd quite like to see an amp one day that has seperate bass and treble signals. Might mean making special split pups though. Then bi-amp each of the drives (using bi-wirable speakers) But as for the surround sound amp. I'd like to see a sort of joystick like footswitch so you could swirl the effects around the surround speakers. For example, you could be playing the same tune through all the speakers, stamp on your delay (for example) and then use the joystick so that you can bias where the majority of the sound goes to. Spinning the joystick around with you foot would cause the sound to spin around the room. I don't know if this is possible, but you're the electronic geezer so you tell me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Well yes... how about an infared beam that you reflect off your guitar or something to control effects.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashncrust Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 i think it should be all tube with a ridiculous amount of preamp tubes, like 15- 12ax7's, or 5 of 3 different types of tubes (5 12ax7, 5 12au7, 5 EL34) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotrock Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Well yes... how about an infared beam that you reflect off your guitar or something to control effects.... Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Meanwhile, I checked your Web Site diyguitarist.com and it's very impressive. I'll take the time to recommend it here and I'm flattered for your input and interest Well, I'm flattered that you're flattered! The site will have been up for one year this Christmas. I have received quite a few emails from people all around the world about various things on my site. Kinda cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 well I'm flattered that your flattered that I'm flattered...What a great and unlikely word flllaattterrred...I guess we're all flattered...I went out last night and got completely flattered....woke up this morning, felt a little flattered....whew-eee did you flatter? Sarcasam no! Actually, I know a guy down here who actually makes something like this and some other really weird stuff. Spacebeam As a kid I always thought a joystick on the guitar would make a neat kind of tone control or fader between two pickups. Proffessor Perry from Frostwave (above) has a joystick control for his analog synth to midi converter...not sure what it does though! Sounds a little expensive Thrashencrush. Possibly fragile and a fire risk. Still, I know where your coming from. You could actually divide the guitars output frequencies and send the lows highs, mids and lows to different preamps. Simple, reliable and cheap is probably the go for me. p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 You know Paul Perry?! That's cool. He is a regular over at Aron's stompbox forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 We've been unfortunately out of touch lately (family commitments on my side and general slackness!)...he lives not that far from me too. We've known eachother for some twenty five or more years! We have shared in some hairbrained adventures together. I was just thinking I'd get back with him for a project like the sustainer. Like me he thinks to the extreme though...check out the controls and range of his effects...so together we may create an unweildy monster!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not sure if that's a good thing...hmmmm....memories.... back to the laboratory miss igor, we'll call you when we need you...now pete, where did you put that sinister sauce...errrr, *&%burp%#, is that what was in the coke bottle, I thought it was some new wacko flavor, paul....oh, here it is, in the other coke. Oh that stuff, that's their new pepsi flavoured coke...hmmm, yeah paul, they even got the grease and KFC after taste down...no,no,no don't finish it, that is the sinister sauce, this ones solder flux, no it's ok, it's the new satay coke, works ok though...1001 uses coke....collective "*&^burp*&^"....flatter...was that you paul? It's a time consuming process, more of a lifestyle really ... we shared a house for a while you know...I love this guy...hi paul if your out there, miss you! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 I built a full stereo 7-string(two seperate soundpaths) and built a tube/SS stereo 2-cab amp to go with it. A real pain to setup and move. When winter hit last year I wanted to play it at home but didn't want that array sitting in my cramped space. Two 1/4" phono female by male RCA adapters later I was playing through my Sony "home theatre" system. All the stupid ambiance functions and stuff (3-d, club, large hall) worked and gave really impressive depth to the playing of a below-average guitar-owner. Beringer has something similar to this built in to their FX series mixers and it really gives a "virtual" 3-D effect, tho rather lame. Worth doing if you ask me and you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 a stereo amp is something ive thought of a bit tho for me it would be a case og building a beastlly 7 string baritone, then having the signal split to go to a normal amp and then a bass amp. im sure my dad has told me that way back when there was a guitar that had split Pups and two signal outs. so you could have treble strings to the right and low strings to the left. and on another note. how many people are there her who are on the DIYStompbox forum? seems every time i go to either there or here i see someone else i recognise lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 I have almost 2500 posts at Aron's stompbox forum now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 wow. i dontthink ive even hit 100 yet. despite me being alot better at tinkering with electronics than guitars i always seem to have alot more to say here than over there. probablly because here i can talk about electronics and people almost think i know what im doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 I haven't even been over to Aron's SB forum...perhaps I should! I was thinking of something simpler but along The Doctor's ideas. I don't think I'd split pickups and stuff, i just want a really wide, big, all enveloping sound! There's a great guitarist in the novo surf band, The Merman (I've got a thing for progressive surf music like them and Slacktone), where he sends each pickup of his strat to 3 separate effect and amp chains (through three guitar leads!) and combines and pans between them to fantastic effect. I was thinking more along the lines of a stereo spread with a little delay between sides and true stereo effects. Perhaps putting a piezo through one side and the electric to the other on occasion, although simutaneous distortion and clean through separate amps is a neat sound. I'm thinking now of making a very compact two channel PA out of the Amp. Perhaps a subwoofer in the middle (housing the amp like a combo) and some satelite treble speakers to either side. One of the problems with conventional guitar amp set ups is that the sound comes from a single point and needs to be excessively loud to reach others in a band (who are usually to the side), not to mention the audience, especially if you cant afford or don't use or need a PA. I don't want the thing to be so big as to need a truck to move it! I could run preamps or digital effects/simulators into this to achieve the type of effect I'm after. Anyone have any speaker ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 I think the relic from "way back when" is a Rickenbacher with "RicoSound". Was a lot lame but did supply two signal paths. Just be careful with those "way back when"s. There are seniors listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 I haven't even been over to Aron's SB forum...perhaps I should! Why not?! It's not like you are addicted to any music related electronics, right? There is a lot of sharp guys over there. I have learned quite a lot from that forum. Hey, you could start your 24 page sustainer thread there, too! Actually, there was a lengthy thread on sustain, but it wasn't anything where some brave soul was actually trying to build their own guitar mounted sustainer circuit. You could also ask this same amp question at Aron's forum, a little off topic, but there are some guys over there who design amps and stuff. Also, the AX84 forum would be a great springboard for your idea(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Well, I didn't have, nor still do, have reliable access to the internet. Also I suspected I would get addicted to chatting rather than actually creating. It was actually Ansil's Sustainer that came up when researching the sustainer project. I was trolling the internet looking for anything sustainer or Ebow. Also the electronics part is something I really only pick up as I need and is not my strong point. I was originally researching my pickup ideas and exploring magnetic fields using FEMM. I also was working on my amazing pickup winding machine...but that's another story...lets just say it's the only custom made winder with a matching digital counter and tachometer that can run up to 5000 rpm and do two single coils in opposite directions at once...unfortunately never got round to perfected the auto-transversing part....but that's another story. Anyway, perhaps they'd like to join me over here. Some forums aren't that good...not that I have heard anything bad about Aron's SBF...the pickup makers and MIMF have a fair share of conservatives, snobs and know-it-alls that aren't at all open to knew ideas. All my pickups use Rare Earth magnets and there is no interest in anything but alnico and ceramics, let alone new designs! It's easy to spread yourself too thin. Some of my ideas are also a bit out-there and...errr unique...and I really shouldn't be so trusting of disclosing information for fear of interlectual theft. I really will need to start an off topic subject on this because it's philisophicaly quite difficult. God bless the moderators, may they save me from myself. I've got quite a collection of stomps which I got when they came out mostly. I Love the EH Clone Theory and I've got a rare Tychobraye PedalFlanger but in reality, I don't use a lot of effects these days... Now look at what you've done...I forgot what thread I was replying to! Well the future amp will have to wait a little while...keep an eye out for some preamp ideas. I might just make it a power amp...mini PA type of thing...and run it direct from a pedalboard, since where talking effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Well, since you haven't decided on preamps and are happy with just stereo. I used a TubeWorks MosValve with two PaIA preamps(tube) and connected the effect-out from chA to effect return on B with digital delay. On the preamps, I mean. I like the depth and wierdness you can get with full effect blend but its not very subtle. If you had a stereo-output delay unit (I don't) you could do a lot better blending the delay from,say, the neck pickup to both output channels. If I can borrow one from my nephew (good luck there) I think i"ll try it. The PaIA preamps are OK but need help when you first get em. Cheap, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Thanks, Doc...I'll look into it. Not really looking at a stereo guitar...exept if I go with the piezo idea...more like a bi-amp type of thing...think solid bass with some warmth and shimmering highs haloing over it, ever so slightly delayed, so as to chorus when tremoloed and coming from the outlying speakers...think very summery...(excuse the poetic description) Ideally, I'd have the basic bassy sound in the center and have two quick repeats, one to the left and then to the right. These repeats should be so quick as to be not really be interpreted as delay as such. This is the basic sound...now add effects in front...and even distortion will still retain this dimension and complexity. The key to the effect is to have the sounds come from different speakers (and to a lesser extent locations). One you ask the speakers to interpret combined signals like this, you loose the definition...well that's my theory! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted January 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 I still haven't had time to do this one but I found two things of interest... Access to cheap 5 1/2" speakers. I was thinking of four mini quad boxes. These are paperconed, dual cone 70 watt speakers. Although somall, they'd be a lot of them...what do you think? The other is some small single, miniture valve preamps. Are valves like this of value in a preamp or are you mostly getting a nice warm glow? anyway, still collecting parts for this project psw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 I would look at the ART Tube MP StudioV3 preamp. Tiny, cheap and clean. Good "voicing" for a preamp. Adjusts all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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