Paul Marossy Posted December 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Yes, it's simple in concept, but apparently difficult to make work in the real world. So then, the strings are actually comparable to a speaker cone, huh? That's very interesting. Of course, there is more than one way to accomplish the "same effect", as the Sustainiac Model C demonstrates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 True, but in this case the amplifier is much stronger and the driver physically vibrates the whole instrument, using the neck as a lever, making the whole guitar the equivilent of the cone. That's why the guitar is described as being "alive". So you have to put up with this feeling (it might be nice....I don't know....perhaps one for the ladies...um...) and a separate mains powered unit and wires going to a sizable box on the end of the headstock! It does have another very neat feature. You can put effects on the drive signal. This is an amazing feature...a flanger for instance would sweep the feedback through various harmonics...lots of potential and really uncharted water. I was working towards a similar capability (I'm over-ambitious I'm afraid) and may open a door to "natural synthesis". Got to go...this is about your guitar isn't it...perhaps we should meet on the sustainer thread if you want to discuss it further...HIJACK ALERT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Awh, don't worry about it psw. This is a very fascinating subject to me. I think I am going to fiddle around with some ideas I have for experimentation's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Please do! Unfortunately, I can't discuss on the open forum the technology leap that got my drivers so small or made without coils...Kevan will get me! I'm sure that I was asking too much of them too soon and have a lot more ideas for them and other means of driving them strings after I get somewhere with my three or four other revolutionary devices I'm working on. Stay tuned, cause one of them in particular is a beaut! Building a sustainer is different from working with signal chain effects...these things have got to work on the brutal physical world, not just it's signal! But, this work will be done...if not by me, by you, or someone else...and the electric guitar will be changed for ever...I'm positive (well, I think so)! So good luck...any assistance I can give, you got it...meaningful collaborations greatfully accepted...must have own vehicle and equipment...no time wasters, etc psw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 (edited) I use the model C almost everyday. It really does what it claims to do but I think there is a misconception with it that the guitar shakes and vibrates like an unbalanced washing machine. The feeling is very subtle and there have been many times where I forget if I have it turned on or not (when playing fast runs that wouldn't take advantage of the effect). The controls allow you to adjust the gain, string drive, ... I have the magnetic type on order from sustainiac (the stealth plus model) and I'm looking forward to seeing how well it performs in comparison to the model C. I decided to go with the "plus" model so that I could still have a neck pickup. I have no idea what quality it will be but at least it will be there when I want it. Sorry for the side-track. Edited December 3, 2004 by daveq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 psw- it sounds like you always have several things cooking at once. Reminds me of myself! I am cutting back for now, though, because I am kind of burned out on building stuff and tweaking stuff and experimenting in every spare minute that I have. Well, also because my little boy is 11 months old now and walking, so he needs a lot of supervision because he is worse than his big sister was with getting into stuff at this age. Anyway, I can squeeze in a little experiment like this here and there, though. daveq - Don't worry about it. I find this topic to be very fascinating, and I still would like to build something like this into the guitar project. That would make it so cool! I may break down and buy a Sustainiac to put in there, I'm not sure. I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one just so I could reverse engineer the thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Well, Paul, you'll need an xray to see through the epoxy ...try the USPTO first there's some links to various sustainer patents on the "Sustainer Thread" Check ouyt there website, I've found some cool links and sound bites...see Langcasters NZ guitars in particular. Sounds like young are in exactly the same boat as me! 2 y.o. son, into everything and nothing like his sister, now ten (but getting to be a teenager before her time!), was at that age. Maddie went straight into music and plays violin (she plays a little guitar but she was fixated with the violin for some completely unknown reason from about two) and reads music pretty well and all without frets! She's even got sustain for days and no batteries...she thinks the guitar sustainer is pretty cool, but perhaps a bit of a toy...such an earliy age to be cynical...and the boy, Wesley, I have fears may become a drummer if he doesn't get therapy! Good to see I'm not the only one under twenty and carefree...oh, how I wish I was somedays. psw errr....parent's rock (My hair's getting a little like this guys but back to front...reverse mohawk if you know what I mean!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Oh boy, here's another side track - but I guess that makes three of us. I have a son who is turning 4 in March and his little brother is on the way later this month. I'm trying to finish up my last two projects before I go off the radar for a while. I don't know about you guys but even with one child, finding time to work on these projects basically means sacrificing what little sleep I get. I start just after my wife decides she's done for the night and then I get about 2 hrs on average to play with this stuff. If I have to use power tools, I try to fit that sutff in right when I get home but that doesn't always work. One thing I am looking forward to is sharing this with my sons when they get older. That's only if they are interested, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 (edited) Boy, such sob stories! I have a boy 11 mos old, and a girl that turned three last October. Both are high energy types. We are toast at the end of the day! We call my boy "Mr. Grabby Hands" because he literally wants to grab everything he can put his hands on! Anyhow, for the last couple of months, I have made a concerted effort to get up at 4:00AM to practice (with headphones) and to do projects as much as possible. That gives me about 2 hours in the morning before I have to go to work at 7:00AM. Then there is always the weekends to work on stuff when I can. I try to be considerate as much as I can. It's different from when I was single, harder to have time for "projects". But, when I was single, I didn't have much of an interest in electronics and stuff. Go figure. EDIT: My little girl, Makenna, seems to really like drums a lot. Who knows? Maybe she'll be a girl drummer one day. She likes to plink on my guitar, too, though. Edited December 3, 2004 by Paul Marossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Hmmmm...maybe we have just transferred our latent rock star desires into building our dream guitars, etc. While we may not or want to be famous guitar gods, you'd think we could make it in our own homes...dishes....o.kkkkk! I still have hopes that I'll become a rich and famous sustain god...or something...It worked for Floyd "Tremolo King" Rose afterall! Naturally, the family doesn't understand my destiny...I will be King, as soon as I get out of this shirt with the wrap around arms that tie at the back...fashion these days...never let the wife shop for clothes...now there must be a way to solder with your teeth...hendrix played guitar with his dentures....owww, that hurt Good to know I'm not alone in the predicament...see this is the guitar market...stuff the beginners, our children can play our guitars and should be more than greatful...and more chicks should play also...come here, now you put this finger here, that one there (indicates Em chord), now strum...brrroinring...almost (lies)...now I'll do the dishes....just try one more time....okkkk, dishes, oh and dinner...right, and bath the baby...said I'd do it last night but you let me fiddle with...whatever I do...and who are these people you spend so much time with on the computer at 4am...typing is quiet, don't want to wake you...bulls$%$^%#^t, staying asleep would work, as would doing the dishes, if you try...oh the dishes...I'll get right onto it! pete oh, hand drills are real quiet...really, its not so bad this hand tool capper...if you don't have one, you could try turning the electric drills chuck with you hands...yes I have! pathetic really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 (edited) psw, I like your sense of humor! Yeah, I can relate to trying to use a hammer, jigsaw, drill or Dremel Tool quietly in my workroom while everyone else is sleeping, and everything else you said, too. Never thought of the hand drill, I may have to try that! (My goodness, I must be a hardcore do it yourself-er. Wait a minute, did you see my domain name?! ) EDIT: I wonder how the guys that designed the Fuzz Face and wah pedal got together before the days of the internet to share their plan to change music history?! Edited December 3, 2004 by Paul Marossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 They could probably be heard from down the street testing it trough their just aquired Marshall Stacks. Remember it was a much quieter place. When the Beatles toured here in the Mid Sixties they were using their little Voxes...with no PA! The girls were 100 times louder than they were! Anyway, it was one big love in wasn't it?...people were plugging into anything! Besides a Big Muff Pi really sells itself don't you think! Genius..............LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 I forgot to mention one thing: that Donald Tillman preamp circuit I put in this guitar provides quite a boost with a 10uF cap in parallel with the source of the J201 FET. Probably a good 10dB at least! Another way at my disposal for a solo to roar into the mix... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Out of interest, since you've got some active electronics in there, I was talking to LoveKraft recently about remote powering guitars. Things like a sustainer have quite a bit of power drain. He pointed out that phantom powered mics have been around for years and you could safely run a properly regulated DC through a stereo lead to the guitar without affecting the signal line. He even had a little circuit to make it possible...it's a thought if you add more to it like a sustainer and/or piezo's to it. I had been looking at rechargable's but you could have a rechargable battery in there that recharges when your using the phantom power box but would also work without it...or am I going too far? I'd like it cause I'd love an onboard delay and I know it'd chew up the batteries! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Yes, you can use a stereo cord to phantom power your guitar electronics. And, you could use batteries that constantly recharge themselves like in a cordless phone, but I'm thinking, why have batteries at all? Why not just build a regulated power supply for it? If you are using phantom power, that would be very easy to do and you could get a lot more headroom out of it. I believe that those sustainer circuits use a voltage tripler from what I can gather. The other thing is that a "9V" rechargeable battery starts out with only about 7.5V, and they seem to drain a lot quicker that an alkaline battery. If it were me, I would just use an appropriate power supply for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 On the early sustainer projects I was using a battery, and battery drain was a concern to my design....later I just used a variable power supply, I wasn't going to stop lack of power making the thing work, and I'd work out the power then. It seems that people (myself included) have an aversion to active electronics because of the need to house the battery and open up the guitar...with piezo acoustics it's seen as a necessary evil...I wonder why this isn't done then...I don't think I've heard of a phantom powered guitar. You know, we really should get over to the electronics forum so others can see this stuff...especially when this thread is about your mighty fine guitar, which is complete, at least for now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 It seems that people (myself included) have an aversion to active electronics because of the need to house the battery and open up the guitar Yeah, that's why I carved out a dedicated battery cavity on the back side of my guitar. It makes things very easy that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_p...tery_Boxes.html i have some of these...they work quite well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Yeah, those are great if you have the room in the body to install one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted January 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 (edited) Just an update on my project. It's been done a while, but I had something very unfortunate happened - the polyurethane started peeling off where the sunburst was! I peeled most of it off with a guitar pick. So, with all the edges peeled off, I decided that it had to be refinished. Since this was a fabric topped guitar, not an easy prospect. But, polyurethane, in this case was pretty easy to get off - with the careful use of a wood chisel. After several hours of patiently removing the polyurethane with the wood chisel, it was ready for refinishing, and I was able to salvage it, but it was close to a total disaster. Had to the sunburst over again and repair a couple of small gouges in the material, but all is well now, and I think it looks better than before. You can't tell where I gouged the fabric at all, the wood chisel made a pretty clean cut and with super glue applied to it, it became pretty much invisible. Anyhow, all that to say: be very wary of polyurethane! (At least on a metallic spray paint) The paint brand was Krylon, BTW. I went with several coats of gloss lacquer this time - much, much better results. A hard lesson to learn, but fortunately I was able to save it, which is a good thing because this is one of my best playing and sounding guitars. Whew! Edited January 2, 2005 by Paul Marossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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