1Way Posted December 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 (edited) Excellent, it went well, they offered me a fair value for my guitar (it's never enough) and they are doing a great price on the Epi even though they have to special order it. I still need to come up with the remainding cash amount. Hmmm, I need to sell something... Anyone want a great set of PA monitor speakers for a great price? Edited December 15, 2004 by 1Way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Way Posted December 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Sorry for going off topic, but it is my thread. I have been thinking about the SG and how it is famous for being neck heavy. So I have been considering alternative ways to strap it up. How about, I put a short piece of strapping(?) from the neck peg to the rear end peg, make that fairly taunt so that it rests pretty much flush with the back of the guitar. Then, instead of fastening the rear of the guitar strap at the rear peg, fasten it a couple inches forward towards the body on that short strap! Anyway I think it would be easier to make the rear strap connection go forward than it would be to move the neck position strap retainer forward. And I'd have to make sure it would not scratch up the backside. Any other ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Cool, lettuce know how the Burstbuckers sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasabi J Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Heh... That strap idea... I ain't following you. I'm just lost as usual. You may already know what I'm going to say, but this time I have experience! I've played a LTD Viper with 81's and it doesn't have any balance issues like people are talking about with the SG. It fits nice and right. I tried out this specific model: the LTD Viper 400, with see-through black cherry finish. Lemme tell you, it's very comfortable. It's lighter than you would expect, but you could definitely see it was NOT plywood. So... don't let anyone talk you into what you don't want, even me, but just try one out if you can. I referenced with other lower models, so if you are looking just to see how it feels on you, the other Vipers are the same weight and balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Way Posted December 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 (edited) Chuckles, crafty. The Burstbuckers are AlnicoV I think and they are even higher output and higher in tonal range, so I would rather try the Seth Lover or the SD Antiquities pickup. Also, if I get the Epi SG reissue, I don't think it need's a different pickup, at least not for a long time. They are Gibson USA pickups and sound great, the bridge pickup might be in need of an upgrade if I was to join a band or go into the studio or something like that. Maybe if I sell something else I can get it the Epi SG reissue. Wasabi J, thanks but I already checked out the Viper and more recently the Ibanez AXS which seemed to be the most promising of the bunch. But even the AXS was far from the tone provided by the SG's. One sort of trick I learned is to put the guitar back to your ear, then strum the strings and listen closely to what happens. I did that with the SG's and could hear their sweet distinctive tonal voicing, but when I tried the others, they sounded dull or tinny in comparison. Also, I'd stay away from the Gibson SG (special?) faded, it comes with an ebony fingerboard and sounds noticeably brighter, too bright for my taste. Edited December 16, 2004 by 1Way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 I was reading some specs on music123.com for the Elitist Les Paul and it said the pickups were actually Gibson USA Burstbuckers--even though they have a totally different number on the Elitists--and those same pickups are on the Elitist SG! So you may have Burstbuckers after all...I heard the new ones sound better and don't feedback as much since they're potting them now. BTW, referring back to an earlier post, potting pickups isn't difficult, just tricky because the hot MOLTEN wax can melt the bobbins if you leave it in there too long. The problem is trying to completely pot the pickup free of air pockets whilst not burning the damn thing up. Not something you want to try for the first time on a $100 pickup. Uh-oh, looks like our ESP fanboi is back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasabi J Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Uh-oh, looks like our ESP fanboi is back... Hey now.... that ain't fair! Just doing my job! Can't say I wanted to push you towrad the LTD as much as I can say I just didn't wanna see you buy that Kramer! Plus, I just didn't want anyone getting the idea that ESPs were made from plywood (but yes... they are Korean). Solid alder... all the way through. Not any pro or con, or trying to plug it, but it ISN'T ply. Good to see you settling on something though. Lemme know everything you did on those pickups, if you do 'em, because it sounds like good fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Way Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 crafty, I see, so that was the burstbucker connection you were talking about, I was wondering how you came up with burstbuckers. I will have to look into what you are talking about. I've heard some good things about the burstbuckers, especially if they were potted. The Epiphone website says the neck is 50SR and bridge is 60ST (USA Humbucker). And that is the same setup for all the Les Pauls EXCEPT the Beautiful Les Paul Tak Matsumoto model. It says the neck is burstbucker-2 and bridge is burstbucker-3. So seems like two similar things are going on there but one of them is only with the high dollar Tak model. It wouldn't surprise me if Epiphone was using hardware that Gibson has already developed and Gibson is just keeping things quiet and using different numbering. I am after a big rich tone with lots of lows and mids, plus smooth highs, but not too much emphasis on the highs. I wonder how much difference the pickup makes in relationship to it's location. That is why I also like the idea of having three duel humbuckers, because the in-between location may add a selection that might be just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Way Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Wasabi J, thanks for the suggestions, much appreciated. I will keep you posted if I do anything with the pickkups, or if I find out which ones they are pattered after. Here's how cool I think the Epi Elitist SG neck pickup is. I tried out at least four different guitars in one visit, The Gibson SG Standard The Gibson SG Special faded The Gibson SG Deluxe The Epiphone Elitist SG 61 reissue The Epiphone Elitist Les Paul Standard And I found the Epi 61' reissue had THE BEST neck pickup of them all! Well, the SG Deluxe was great too, maybe a tie for top honors if I can get passed the high end it provided at the neck position. Of those guitars, I liked the SG Special the least, it was noticeably brighter and lacked the warmth and low end depth that I was expecting. It has an ebony neck and perhaps a different bridge pickup and a faded finish. I'm guessing that the fretboard and the bridge pickup made most of the difference. I'm not sure which I liked the best, the Epi 61' reissue or the Gibson Deluxe or the Gibson Standard! But my gut tells me that if the headstocks were blindfolded and you handed me those same guitars, I would go with the 61 reissue as being the better guitar. The only exception might be that I liked the bridge pickup better in the deluxe, plus tuning on the Gibsons generally seemed nicer and easier to do. It definitely had more base and rich full bodied overtones, but it also had more high end than I prefer, plus it was a hotter (louder) pickup. I don't like my pickups and guitars with too much of a high end focus. Frankly I doubt that I would change that bridge pickup in the Epi reissue for at least a few years as I will not be joining a band or going into the studio anytime soon. I was more than satisfied putting on both pickups and letting that work. Also the neck position alone was fantastic. I was perplexed because I was not favoring the bridge position like I'm used to doing. I need to go down and try out that Epi SG reissue again soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Hey, next time take a ruler with you and compare the position of the neck pup on the Epi Elitist with the one on the SG Deluxe. I'm just curious because the Deluxe is a 24 fret guitar, so the neck pup may not be in the harmonic. That might be the reason why the tone is a little different, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Way Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 crafty, I will do that, but to my understanding, all the SG's keep the neck pickup away from the fretboard enough distance to add two more frets. As to the deluxe sounding different, it sounded way different from ALL the other SG's and I could tell that the pickups were definitely why it sounded different. Gibson 57' pickups on the Deluxe Switching back to 57' classics from the Burstbuckers. The Deluxe's 57' pickups had just as much rich sound and overtones, perhaps more than the Epi 61 reissue, sorry if I did not explain that clearly before, but my ears are bothered by too much highs, so that colored my impression of them right off the bat. They were certainly the hottest pickups of the bunch. The guitar was noticeably louder and it was more sensitive to even slight finger movement on the strings. My impression was that they are very close to being perfect pickups, they just have too much treble for my taste, plus they are a bit too hot. But another sensation that I did not comment on earlier was that those pickups gave me the impression that I was playing a high grade vintage instrument. To my ears, they have a special deep warm full-bodied sound, rich with overtones and even the impression that you can hear the wood resonating and contributing to the sound. Also, those 57's gave the clearest impression of hearing the guitar itself. They weren't just better than the other pickups, they were almost twice as impressive, except for the Epi 61' reissue where I would have to re-examine them to judge better except for the bridge position pickup in the 61' reissue, it was noticeably inferior to the Deluxe's 57's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Way Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Neck and bridge position tonal difference I would have guessed that having the same pickups in the neck and bridge would offer more of a tonal shift, but I was somewhat surprised at how similar the tonal range was in each pickup. I can see why they make different pickups for the neck and bridge so as to expand the tone range. If I had a triple duel humbucker setup, I would definitely NOT have them all be the same pickup, you would not get much distinction between each succeeding pickup. SG strap mod I want to alter the way I attach the guitar strap to the guitar to keep it from being neck heavy. So far I am primarily trying to move the rear strap retainer forward towards the neck (maybe about 4-5") without resorting to drilling a hole in the back and placing it there. Whatever I do, I will have to attach the strap so that it's pretty much flat against the guitar back, I don't want a strap lug nut stickup up and out from the back of the guitar and hitting me in the nether regions. I could fashion a piece (of something like plastic or Plexiglas) that is about 6 inches wide and long enough to attach to both pre-existing strap nuts (one end bent over 90 degrees to reach the rear strap retainer location), and thick enough to be pretty much inflexible. Then on the guitar side of this bracket, line the entire piece with some kind of guitar-finish friendly material (like something they use to line premium guitar cases). Then on the other side, make a relatively flat attachment setup for the guitar strap. Doing this would provide two main services, (1) balance the guitar so it's not neck heavy, and (2) it would protect the backside from the common ill of belt buckle rash. I'd probably just remove the pre-installed strap nuts, and then install my new and improved strap bracket/system. I definitely do not want to be spending energy holding up the guitar, I want my hands free to play, after all, they need all the help they can get. Is any of this starting to make sense yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Way Posted December 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Updates/corrections I retested the Epi and Gibsons and found the Epi's pickups to be not good enough, they became muddy or indistinct during open chord changes while the Gibson's remained clear and fuller sounding. So I'll be on the lookout for a good used Gibson SG Standard (or maybe a Special). I also found that the 57 classics were not as bright as I first thought, and they delivered more tonal range differences between the bridge and neck positions especially when they are well adjusted in terms of height. I also found a mod to relocate the top strap location on the end of the upper horn, which is supposed to work well to improve the balance. What are the common upgrades for the Gibson Special to make it more comparable to the Gibson Standard? So far it's seems obvious that an upgraded bridge pickup would be in order, so I'm wondering about the nut and tuners and other hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenHan Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) I know I'll probably get some people raising their eyebrowses about this.. But I believe in freedom of speach so I'm gonna say it anyway. I've played guitar for 25+ years or so .. I've had countless of guitars, often more than a dozen at the time .. many of my friends also plays, some are working in musicstores and are very good musicians. We've talked about this many times and we have all come to the same conclusion.. Most people are way way to much focused on the brand name printed on the guitar, yes some manufacturers are very skilled, yes they use so and so many hundred years of dryed wooods ...blablabla ... fine! Some are so beutiful it's incredible! ... but many charge insane prices just because they have a famous name ... just because they can! (they are laughing all the way to the bank) ... Do I have anything against high brand guitars? .. certainly not, I have for instance a fender that costed a shitload of money, and I love it .. the whole thing screams quality .. and it plays very well. But during the years I have tried countless of gibsons/fenders that have not been no where near as good as for example the "squire's made in the 80's" .. lowpriced guitars, but many of them where excellent ... more than excellent .. many times better than the more expensive USA series. (I'm not talking about pickups, tremolo and such .. those are so individual that the advanced players always tends to change them to their taste anyway, and to shield them, wax the pickups etc...etc..) What I mean is the pure feel, the playability of the guitar ... I found myself having a very expensive Ibanez with all kinds of bells and whistles, inlays and what not .... still I often played on a homebrewed cheap fender body with an 80's squire neck on it ... Like described before in this thread .. how the cheap kramer guitars have plywood bodys and are crappy and so on ... yes they might have plywood body, and in many peoples oppinion they might be crap ... but I tell you, I got one cause I like the maple necks, and I like the fact they do maple necks with 24 frets .... and it plays the crap out of most of my guitars, in my taste the neck is a dream!!! .. it has the same feel to it as the musicman necks which I think is a fast and nice neck "the ones they call unfinished ... but I guess they are finished to some degree, otherwise they would get ugly and twist I guess" The pickups are dead silent ... the finish is nice .. but mainly it does play ten times better than I dared dream about ... I've had several Kramers before (including the American sustainer), charvels, Ibanez .. etc ...etc... but none of them where as playable as this one. And if I in the future find that the paint are peeling, or it looses its finish ... well I can change the body and buy a better one .. build me another body .. or just stick to it and don't give it another thought ... The point is that I found a cheap guitar that certainly met my preferences as to the feel when I play it .. the sound can always be better .. but that's why they sell soldering irons I guess .. It's all about to isolate what you really like, and to adjust it to fit you, and your playing style ... to tweak it, is much more important than the name printed on the head ... and many of the high-prized guitars are made by the same factories as the cheaper brands ... the same machines ..etc... and it's not exactly rocket science anyway .. All the above is focused on the main application, namely when you play .. it does not concern beauty, craftmanship, legacy and such .. thats a whole other issue, and may concern the collecting side of this hobby (which is nice as well) I do not in any way mean to offend anyone, or claim that I know more than anyone else about this topic .. this is purely a reflection, and an expression for my personal experiences in this field .. and every guitar player is uniqueue ... so there's a guitar for everyone. I know I have wasted so much money cause I wanted to have this and that brand .. so even though I still have expensive guitars, none of them have as nice fretboard as the cheap $230 kramer striker -... and in the end .. that's what counts .. which of them do you prefer to play on .. thats my 2 cents folks .. you all have a good one //Ken1 Edited January 10, 2006 by KenHan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Hey, 2004 just called, they want their thread back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Hey, 2004 just called, they want their thread back... ← Well, yeah, but then this line: "You might as well buy a jar of piss from someone else and flush it down your own toilet" Might have been lost to posterity. Anyone know what the guy eventually bought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) I will admit: I was a bit tipsy that evening I made the "piss" comment and had just been through a bad breakup. But I'm fine now. I'm not doing the whole angry-outburst/taking my bad days out on newbs anymore. Therapy, anti-depressants, and just being done with law school in general really helps a lot. Edited January 12, 2006 by crafty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Hey, you can't know the ups without the downs... When I post in usenet groups, I have various identities, depending on my mood... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Hey, you can't know the ups without the downs... When I post in usenet groups, I have various identities, depending on my mood... ← Which makes me ask: do you ever post in rec.music.makers.builders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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