MikeB Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 hey, thought id ask a few questions here, as i know a few of you are professional studio engineers, or at least know more about whats goin on than i do! basically im recording drums onto a track or two next week with a drummer buddy. i wanted to know what mics to use for the kick and the snare. i have a great studio vocal mic of my own, and wanted to know if this would be good for the snare or kick, i think i remember reading that the large diaphragm mics are great for recording kick drums. snare wise, i saw Steve Gadd using a similar mic on his snare. would the hi-hat sound bleed into this mix too much if i used this? i have the ability to get another studio vocal mic. i will also be close-micing the toms with my own mics, thats fine. stereo over heads, thats about it. about 8 mics in total. so yeah, any tips on producing the drums (i know roughly that you remove 1khz range etc... ive played mixing them before with good ish results, but ive never close miced a kit before) thanks in advance! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asm Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 man, your tackleing a beast for recording! probably most controversial instrument to record. its all on what sound you want to get out of it. youve got the group that tries to capture each piece of the kit by using upwards of 8 mics, but when you do this you better have a good piece of gear to bring in 8 channels in a take at once. =$$$, else, your gonna have to mix it down thru a board, do your panning, and take aux's out or main LR out into your gear. the advantages of this is that you have more control over each piece of the kit obviously. a disadvantge is that you better have an ear for recording, of how to eq and sit eight channels of drums in a session, quite difficult to nail right. another disadvantage is cost, can have a 15k set of mics to record a kit in that way. then you have the traditionalist, Earthworks, http://www.earthworksaudio.com/ , is doing the '3 mic technique' to record drums. a set of matched overheads and one for the kick. a major factor in recording drums is the room though, do you have access to a half way decent room? doesnt need to be acoustically beautiful, but one free of huge flouro lights, ambient noise and reflections. tell me how much you want to spend to record, what kind of room you have, how big of a kit your recording, and what your interface is, also mac or pc. then i can tell you what might be best for you and give some good mic choices for you to follow up on. t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted December 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 hey asm! thanks for the reply! basically im gonna record onto a yamaha studio, through behringer desks - mostly schools equiptment. the room is in the schools studio - its not the best, but its a darn sight better than most! sound dampened floor/wall - lights no problem. mic wise i am working with all condensors i reckon - cant remember makes models. i have a MXL large diaphragm studio mic - i think its a fantastic mic. i think the overheads will be audio technica and the other large diaphragm mic is an audio technica. sound wise - i really want the bass drum to be heard nicely - metal band not too boud, definately not booming, but defined. i may try the credit card trick to get more click off it if necessary. toms need to be bright, averagely dead, but not quiet - i hate bands that have great drummers, but have toms that are too quiet. snare must have attack, but not be prominent in the mix too much, hi-hats clean, bright, crisp. he just bought new Zildjian A Mastersound Custom 13" hi-hats, man they are soo nice! the kit will be 3 toms, 1 in the middle, and 1 either side of him - odd setup i know! the ride is heavy, and has a really loud bell. cyabals are Avedis 18" crash 18" A china, 8" splash, 16" xplosion crash. the snare is 5.5" deep, 14" dia. toms are 10, 12and 16" pretty new skins - played in well. i think dave lombardos mix (esp from seasons) is pretty good, also virgil donati's kick drum mix is kick-ass (pun intended) [sarcasm] lars' sound from st anger, wow!!![/sarcasm] i will be panning and mixing before it hits the recording desk. i may put the snare drum in separately - its usually nice to play with. and yes, one take. thanks for all the help! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asm Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 is that all the mics you have access to? since he is going to be hammering stuff harder than a jazz player. id make sure you had a few shure sm57's. probably your best bet on snare and high hat and ride close micing. what model AT's do you have? they make a few really nice mics, but their low end is pretty sketchy. on the minimal money end you could do snare with a 57, but a vocal mic 8" above and between the two toms with a pad on it. same vocal mic on the other tom, 57 on ride and hihat. then mess around with any small diaphram condensors for a overhead set a 3 or so feet above the kit, have to experiment with that though. on the bass your going to have problems. with any of those mics probably akg d112 is popular for a kick, and pretty inexpensive too. ive seen people micing front skin, back skin, foot off the back skin, or putting a pillow in the kick and laying the 112 face up in the kick. tell me a little more about the mics you have access to, model numbers if you remember them too. t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted December 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 names and numbers are gone - i do know i have a sehnnheiser e825 or e818 one or tother! i have a feeling that i will be messing with many mic setups! any recording tips beyond what mics to use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Can't you record all mics on different tracks? That would make it WAY easier. Otherwise you have to get the mix right before recording and thats quite close to impossible especially for someone who has not much expirience. If you record all mics to different tracks you can do all mixing afterwards and take your time to.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asm Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 (edited) yup. exactly how many xlr's can you bring in on that yamaha studio interface? im not familiar with that piece of gear. strive to get the absolute best sound you can while recording. will save you hrs and hrs of headache later. i can also try to mix it if you want me to when you get done. what interface do you record on? DP, PT, cubase? while recording, you need to figure out whats the best pattern for the mics. on your overheads try omni first (the one that looks like "O") if you hear to much room bleed and noise then youve got a crappy room and try them just on cardioid (one that looks like a heart). your snare mic should def be on cardioid if you decide to use anything other than a 57, which is cardiod only. toms should be on cardioid too. kick too, maybe hypercardioid (heart with a small circle behind it) (cant do this with a d112). your snare mic should definately have a 10db pad, possibly will need a pad on the toms too. stay a few inches off the face of the toms. and on the snare try a 30 degree angle to the edge of the face. an inch or so off, also try doing the same, except more towards the rim. if you do the cymbals up close try getting about 3" away from the bell (center) above and below. might get a good sound that way. hope that helps. t ps-dont put a vocal mic on the snare, as close as it needs to be, and having a crazy swinging drummer, you dont want to destroy a several hundred dollar mic. a mic like a md421 or 57 can be run over by a truck and still have a killer sound. Edited December 12, 2004 by asm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted December 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 the main problem is that it has only 2 XLR ins, it has 6 jack ins as well IIRC, so i may be able to get a few mics in there, but on the whole itll be mostly be going thru the 2 XLr in. its a stand alond workstation, so i will be taking the rough audio off it, and final editing in traction or quartz studio pro. yeah, its cheap software, but i like it. i think the mics there are SM57's almost certain. the sennheiser i have is indestructible! just like the sures! as far as separate tracks go, i think i can put quite a few in separate. ill type as i think here: kick definately able to be separate snare separate toms - 1 panned left (hard) 2 panned hard right - taken off my mixer in separate channels overheads - separate mixer - pan and input. hopefully thats realistic, ill have to let you know when i get near it! thanks for the input! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asm Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 sounds good to me. if that sennheiser is a 421 (long thin type with a grill nose) then try it out on the toms. sounds pretty nice. before you do any effects to it, send it my way and ill see if i can play around with it any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted December 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 thx! i only have one sennheiser unf. i do think i have those sures. my plan was to use the vocal mics on the toms as you said, then sennheiser on kick, sure on snare, AT overheads, and perhaps mic the front skin of the kick and the hi-hats. im not too sure of how to get every track sent separately - the recording desk is tempremental with CD burning, ie ive never made it work! i will do what i can tho! thanks again! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted December 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 ok, got the drums recorded. feel free to comment on this, i know the timing is a little sloppy, but i will re-record the rhythm guitars soon. this was recorded on my randy rhoades V solo 1 is smitty, solo 2 is me. drum mic setup: sennheiser in the kick drum 3" off the face, just beneath the beater audio technica kit mics on the snare and 2 toms. electret mic on the hi-hat (was micing a 2nd snare, but this wasnt used, and it picked the hihats up well) 2 studio vocal mics for overheads if this is being re-recorded we will be using a deeper snare, i wont bust my stand, 3 toms next time, spot mic the hihats and ride cymbal i think i need more stereo separation, but im not sure, the overheads were the worst thing to try and balence!! http://fullservesite.com/fadingblind/dark_skies_2.mp3 i know that the drums are too loud in this mix, but it isnt finished yet, so i will ammend this at a later date! any critisism would be cool. and yes, no vocals as yet as i havent found a good singer yet! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1nf1d3l Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 that song is badass, the drums sound good, but i think the guitar and bass needs to be a little louder. with the vocals in there thats gonna be a rockin song!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!!METAL MATT!! Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 It sounds cool not as hard as I like but hard all the same, Good stuff man I just gota say a few things dont get pissed at me or anything like that Iam just offering what I think ok you gota be a bit more firm/sure with the note's your hiting on the guitar's they sound a bit lose and bring the volume up on the bass and guitar, and A bit less botom end comeing off the kick It sound's to muted to me but that just me But but dont just take my word for it I havent sold any CD's!! so all"en"all good stuff !!METAL MATT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted December 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 cool, yeah, i think the kick is slightly high. the guitar parts are being re-recorded which will solve those probs, and the first solo may be the one you are referring as unsure, well, it was, lol! smitty wants to retake this. lol, there is no bass guitar on that yet! hehe. Mike thanks for the input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!!METAL MATT!! Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 lol, there is no bass guitar on that yet! hehe. Ya you see that's how much I know HAHAHA !!METAL MATT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 (edited) Sounds good already but here are a few suggestions that you might (or might not) want to try. Like MATT said, the kick drum sounds a bit "muted". Maybe add a bit of upper mids or highs to emphasize the percussive "click" sound. And I would try to add a bit of reverb to the snare and toms but not to the rest of the kit. Lead guitar might sound great scooped when played alone, but with the drums taking up the lows and highs I would give the lead guitar a bit more mids, especially the ones at around 3:13. MATT commented about the guitar not being loud enough. Maybe it just needs a bit more mids and a bit less lows and highs to make the whole mix more harmonically balanced. The rhythm guitar sounded fine to me though. I'm not saying that this is the right way to do it. It's just what I would try, considering what I heard. Just my 2 cents. Edited December 21, 2004 by Saber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted December 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 hey, ill try the reverb and changing the kick when i get back to school, meantime ill get the guitars sorted. yeah, it does sound muffled - more mids here i come! thanks guys! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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